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January 9, 2016 9:55 pm  #641


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

James Norrington wrote:

"Of course he’s dead. He blew his own brains out. No-one survives that. I just went to the trouble of an overdose to prove it."
Sherlock always thought Moriarty was dead. Before Mycroft called he - I guess - didn't know anyone doubted that. So his conclusion of 'he blew his own brains out, no-one survives that' is just the same he already had after TRF and didn't come from his overdose-caused deductions. And after all, it really is a fact, but the point remains: What if he didn't really blow his minds out, how could he have survived then?

I find it slightly odd that Sherlock goes to such effort to try to find out if Moriarty's still alive.  The obvious solution is that he set something up before his death - presumably planned, as I'm sure how he didn't bring that gun along to the rooftop planning to shoot Sherlock.  How banal would that be?  Sherlock kind of answers this earlier in TAB when he says the solution to the ghost case is simple - other people make it look as if they are Emilia.  He knows this long before he works out who the murderer is.  So why doesn't he just assume that people are seeing pre-recorded video of Moriarty?  It's the most obvious solution.  Especially if, as you say, he had no reason to doubt that Moriarty was dead. 



Unless of course Sherlock knows something we can't know because it was never shown, but that would be disappointing and I want to believe that the writer's wouldn't go that way.
 

I grew up on Agatha Christie rather than ACD, and I'm used to having all the information presented to me to allow me as reader/viewer to solve the case (even if I can't actually do it!).  I don't think "Sherlock" is written quite that way - it drives me nuts that in HLV we're only given the information about the ambulance arriving early while Sherlock is telling us his deduction.   He does withhold information from us, including information that is vital to the "solution".

 

January 9, 2016 10:06 pm  #642


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Liberty wrote:

I grew up on Agatha Christie rather than ACD, and I'm used to having all the information presented to me to allow me as reader/viewer to solve the case (even if I can't actually do it!).  I don't think "Sherlock" is written quite that way - it drives me nuts that in HLV we're only given the information about the ambulance arriving early while Sherlock is telling us his deduction.   He does withhold information from us, including information that is vital to the "solution".

No he doesn´t withold any information from us. When he speaks about an ambulance he simply makes this BS up to cast Mary in a good light. Because he was unconscious after Mary shot him and so he can´t really know if she called an ambulance, if the ambulance didn´t actually come after John´s call, how quickly the ambulance came etc.
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

January 9, 2016 10:15 pm  #643


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Well I believe Mary did call the ambulance, though it may not matter anyway.
It's very easy to link TAB to Mary, because she was a bride with a secret...
But unless she works for Moriarty or is his successor, it's not really about her.


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January 9, 2016 10:22 pm  #644


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

He could easily have found out the information about the ambulance, and he uses it in his deduction - my point was that we don't have the information, so don't get the chance to work it out.  It's a different kind of story-telling, I suppose; it's meant to come as a surprise, rather than be a puzzle we can solve. 

(And if you believe Sherlock made it up, then he's still withholding information, and we still can't solve it ourselves). 

Last edited by Liberty (January 9, 2016 10:23 pm)

 

January 10, 2016 4:18 am  #645


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I've read several comments that say Mary is working for Mycroft.  (Sorry, I don't remember who says so.)  But -- how do we know that?  Clearly I am missing something because I don't remember seeing or hearing anything that definitively indicated she was.  Someone please enlighten me as now it's bugging me! 


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January 10, 2016 5:06 am  #646


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

So I never did hear what the in-joke for the Chinese viewers was. I assume it was in the scene with Ricoletti coming out of the opium den, I know there was some Chinese writing on the wall. So what was the joke, does anyone know?


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January 10, 2016 6:23 am  #647


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

I've read several comments that say Mary is working for Mycroft.  (Sorry, I don't remember who says so.)  But -- how do we know that?  Clearly I am missing something because I don't remember seeing or hearing anything that definitively indicated she was.  Someone please enlighten me as now it's bugging me! 

I don't know for sure, but a couple of guesses I do have--  when she got the note marked M, "come immediately," and she told Mrs. H. that it was from "England", I presume it's because Mycroft works for the gov't.  And then later, in the airplane, she was checking her phone and getting information that I presume no one without the secret handshake codes would have had access to. But that's all I can think of, and that's pretty flimsy.
 

 

January 10, 2016 7:36 am  #648


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I think it's pretty explicit that Mary is working for Mycroft in the scene at the Diogenes club ("I now rely on you to keep an eye on things").  

Then in the present day, Mycroft isn't at all surprised to see Mary accessing top level files at MI5.  It's not a definite confirmation, but if Mary had worked for Mycroft in real life it would certainly explain why Sherlock sees her doing the same in his mind palace.

Last edited by Liberty (January 10, 2016 8:10 am)

 

January 10, 2016 8:24 am  #649


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Yeah, Sherlock might be working out that Mary works for Mycroft in real life.
Thinking about it, it seems odd that Sherlock never thought:wow, did Mycroft not know about Mary?!
Then we get constant reminders from Mycroft, that Sherlock should not get involved and stay away from cases...
Sorry, I'm wandering here.


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January 10, 2016 12:32 pm  #650


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

No, Besley, I've been having the same pondering really. If Mary works for Mycroft in the special Sherlock must have thoughts about this being the case in real life too. 
But... why would Mycroft not have been able to warn Sherlock about Mary or at least try to keep her away somehow. 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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January 10, 2016 12:34 pm  #651


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I don't think Mycrfot considered Mary a threat to Sherlock and she wouldn't have been, if he'd kept his neb out!
Though I do appreciate, Sherlock had been hired by Lady Smallwood...presumably Mycroft didn't know this.
To be fair, Mary didn't know this either!

Last edited by besleybean (January 10, 2016 12:40 pm)


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January 10, 2016 12:38 pm  #652


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

"This was my fault"

That line could be interpreted any number of ways, but I find it relevant to the matter at hand -had Mycroft informed Sherlock of Mary's involvement, had he dealt with her secrets, Sherlock would not have had to kill Magnussen and certainly not been exiled -even if it was just "a shorter exile than [they] had imagined", resulting in doing drugs so as not to face John's loss a moment longer.


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January 10, 2016 12:43 pm  #653


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Good point.
Though it felt at the time to me that Mycroft was, well he directly refers to the danger of leaving Sherlock for a week in an isolation cell.
But I also wondered about the vunlerability of Sherlock feeling he'd been signed  a death sentence, when he was put on that plane.


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January 10, 2016 12:47 pm  #654


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Agreed. That's what I felt the first time around as well.


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I'd be lost without my blogger.
"It’s not a ‘gang’ show, it’s the Sherlock and John show. It’s about developing their characters and their relationship, and the characters drawn into their orbit.”  Steven Moffat



 
 

January 10, 2016 12:48 pm  #655


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I think that if Mycroft hired Mary to watch John, or to watch Sherlock, he wouldn't have told either of them.    Also, if he'd hired Mary to go after Magnussen, I don't think he'd have told Sherlock either - he does warn him to get off the case. 

 

January 10, 2016 1:08 pm  #656


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I agree entirely.


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January 10, 2016 5:57 pm  #657


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

If by some slim chance Mary was working for Mycroft, why was she still standing at the end of HLV.  There is no universe where I can imagine Mycroft not putting her in a deep dark hole for shooting his brother.


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January 10, 2016 6:03 pm  #658


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Perhaps she is useful... 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"

"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

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#IbelieveInSeries5
 

January 10, 2016 6:06 pm  #659


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Neither Mary nor Mycroft knew Sherlock was going to be there, he just got in the way.
He's well over, past and moved on from that- as well as having forgiven Mary.


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January 10, 2016 6:12 pm  #660


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:

No, Besley, I've been having the same pondering really. If Mary works for Mycroft in the special Sherlock must have thoughts about this being the case in real life too. But... why would Mycroft not have been able to warn Sherlock about Mary or at least try to keep her away somehow. 

Um, could it be because the writers are making this up as they go along? No one knows, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Don't shoot me.

 

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