BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

nakahara · January 8, 2016 2:14 pm

ukaunz wrote:
His use of meditation techniques could simply be derived from the canon. In The Adventure of the Empty House Watson tells us that Holmes spent time in Tibet. From the Baker Street Wikia:

After his defeat of Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes decided to fake his own death in order to get away from the men pursuing him, and so decided to flee Europe. During this period he spent two years in Tibet under the guise of a Norwegian explorer named Sigerson. This included some time living in Lhasa, where he spent several days with the head Lama himself.
He then explains that he spent the next three years travelling to various parts of the world. Holmes says that initially, he travelled to Florence. From there, Holmes travelled to Tibet and wandered for two years, even attaining entry to Lhasa. Afterward, Holmes travelled incognito as a Norwegian explorer named Sigerson. Then, he went to Persia, with Holmes entering Mecca and then to a brief stopover in Khartoum.
Sounds like he was actually quite interested in spiritualism to some extent.

Very good find, ukaunz. Holmes definitely has interest in Oriental spirituality.

nakahara · January 8, 2016 3:11 pm

Bruce Cook wrote:
____________________________________

Here's a fascinating question I just posted in another thread.

Why did Jim really shoot himself?

His stated reason is bogus — to prevent Sherlock from forcing him to call off the snipers. He told Sherlock that nothing would stop them other than seeing Sherlock jump. Jim just smiled and went along with Sherlock's tough talk about how he would be happy to "shake hands with you in hell", but we all know that's all it was. Tough talk.

Moriarty was more than capable of holding out long enough for the snipers to pass the time limit they must have been given before killing their three targets.

Therefore, there was really no reason for Moriarty to commit suicide — real or faked.

So . . . why did he do it?

To me, Moriarty looked absolutely world-weary at the end of TRF. Look at his body-language:

This is the pose of a defeated man.
Moriarty´s active brain needed Sherlock to distract itself, it needed their constant mind-games and their mutual battle... and yet in TRF, Sherlock was seemingly destroyed by Moriarty´s cunningness.
And in destroying Sherlock, the world of incredible boredom and pointless mundanity opens in front of him anew.
In getting rid of the detective, he cut the meaning of his own life from himself.
He even comments on it, how pointless everyting seems to him during a scene.
So I would not put it past him that he planned to committ suicide immediatelly after Sherlock killed himself.
Killing himself to actually force Sherlock to jump would seem even more exciting to him, an ultimate joke on a detective´s expense.

By not offering resistance to him, by openly submitting to him Sherlock drove him into suicide and thus won, IMHO. Some battles are won by a retreat, not by a fierce attack....

Mothonthemantel · January 8, 2016 3:27 pm

I think Moriarty was dieing anyway just like the ghost bride. Maybe he knew that and thats why his ring tone was staying alive or maybe arsenic in the soup , or do I mean tea , or did he take a bite from Sherlocks poisoned apple and seek redemption or revenge by way of taking Sherlock down with him.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 8, 2016 3:28 pm)

besleybean · January 8, 2016 4:40 pm

Yes, I do wonder if there is a link with the bride dying anyway...

ancientsgate · January 8, 2016 5:31 pm

Harriet wrote:
ancientsgate wrote:
If you act quickly, you can see it on repeat broadcast on PBS on Sunday the 10th at 10PM ET.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/programs/episode/sherlock-the-abominable-bride/
Thanks, ancientsgate! Seems to work for the US only, but there might still be quite some people who benefit from it.

Yes, it probably is US only, that's where she said she lived. Perhaps people with satellite TV in other countries can pick up on the PBS feed, not sure how that works.

SusiGo · January 8, 2016 6:01 pm

Btw, what do we make of this?

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This Is The Phantom Lady · January 8, 2016 6:56 pm

Ah! that one has bugged me! Was that just an inside joke with himself, or did he spill something?

SusiGo · January 8, 2016 6:57 pm

And strange parallel to HLV as well …

besleybean · January 8, 2016 7:03 pm

Presumably reacting to what Mycroft had told him.

SusiGo · January 8, 2016 7:09 pm

No. This is the first thing Sherlock says after his Reichenbach jump when waking up in the plane.

besleybean · January 8, 2016 7:11 pm

I was nearly confused again!
Oh, the Falls, rather than the rooftop.
Though this may indicate he was drugged(or at least hallucinating) precisely in that 5 mins post Mycroft's phone call.

stoertebeker · January 8, 2016 10:02 pm

Bruce Cook wrote:
Here's a fascinating question I just posted in another thread.

Why did Jim really shoot himself?

His stated reason is bogus[/size] — [size=125]to prevent Sherlock from forcing him to call off the snipers. He told Sherlock that nothing would stop them other than seeing Sherlock jump. Jim just smiled and went along with Sherlock's tough talk about how he would be happy to "shake hands with you in hell", but we all know that's all it was. Tough talk.

Moriarty was more than capable of holding out long enough for the snipers to pass the time limit they must have been given before killing their three targets.

Therefore, there was really no reason for Moriarty to commit suicide real or faked.

So . . . why did he do it?

I think because Sherlock was his last real opponent, the last challenge he had to face. I mean, Moriarty was obviously very sucessful in his criminal career. He has an awful lot of money (the painting in TGG) and after his coup with the crown juwels and the verdict of not guilty every baddie in the world had wanted him (he said so in his conversation with Sherlock in Baker Street in TRF). So what challenge, what goal was there left for him? He achieved everything in the criminal world and he would have been able to get everything he wanted. So, beating Sherlock was his last ultimate goal. And to make sure that he would be the winner, that he had truly beaten his only rival (Mycroft's words) he had to kill himself. There was just nothing interessting left in his life to keep going.
Jesus, now I am almost convinced that Moriarty IS dead .

Lilythiell · January 9, 2016 12:43 am

I am not sure where to post this, but here is the Tarmac scene, extended with STAB scenes.
Prepare tissues.

RavenMorganLeigh · January 9, 2016 5:18 am

Ivy wrote:
The wonderful Ariane has finished her TAB transcript

http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/81144.html

EDIT: that "protective John" bit is brilliant.

(((((YES!!!!!!!!!!))))))

Bless her!

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 9, 2016 8:06 am

Thank you Lily, now that's one way to start off your day in tears.

But it's actually an interesting insight to see it comprised like that, thank you!

Liberty · January 9, 2016 8:28 am

Agreed, really good idea to put it all together.

The ending of HLV is so sad (thank goodness they had the little epilogue!). I still don't think Sherlock seems to be out of it on the tarmac, acting or not, or even at the time he takes the phone call. Although obviously, it would have to be hidden enough to hide it from us, the audience, too! And it's very hard to believe that he's in on a plot to bring him back - it looks like he really believes he's going off to almost certain death. It also does seem as if the two plane scenes go together.

Liberty · January 9, 2016 8:39 am

The "Miss me?" above - I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding the question - it's obviously a reference to what Moriarty says - but are you asking how Sherlock could have heard it? I don't know. He's not actually in his mind palace there (where the things people have said seep into his mind and are repeated), so he doesn't need to have heard Moriarty say it. Maybe he's just innocently saying it because he has been off in his mind palace, and the Moriarty reference is for us. Or maybe Mycroft told him or sent him something about Moriarty saying "Did you miss me?" and that was in his mind. But it's a good point - the other "quotes" tend to be things that Sherlock has heard directly.

besleybean · January 9, 2016 8:52 am

I can only repeat Sherlock's response must be because his thoughts are shown post Mycroft's phone call, when he was told about the 'miss me'.

Liberty · January 9, 2016 9:02 am

Yes, it's probably too easily explained away to be a definite clue that he knew something.

ukaunz · January 9, 2016 9:30 am

I'm watching STAB for my second time tonight with my husband, who hasn't seen it yet. Fingers crossed he will like it!