BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
As far as we know. What if there would be a flashback one day, showing us things we have not seen before? Like they did in TEH with the three versions of the fall?
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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- besleybean
- Threatened Knighthood
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Sorry Susi, we cross posted!
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- tonnaree
- The "B" is SILENT! (Mod)
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
SusiGo wrote:
This is the exact wording according to someone who snuck a dictaphone into the cinema:
Mark: Tell us your fave thing of working on the show.
Amanda: I liked the swimming pool scene.
Mark: No, bits you’re in!
Amanda: ohh, okay! I liked the bit where I shoot Sherlock. I loved that bit!
It is even more explicit than in your version, tonnaree.
Poor Amanda. I fear Mark may now have her duct tapped to a chair somewhere for reprograming. 
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- besleybean
- Threatened Knighthood
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Yes, maybe in that torture chamber, in the basement of the Diogenes!
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- nakahara
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
What do you think about this?
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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Ouch.
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- Schmiezi
- Reichenbach Survivor
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Not good. 
But true, I think.
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- Lilythiell
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Oh, that hurts...
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- besleybean
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Possibly it depends if we think the whole episode and the mind palace were all about Mary.
But I feel they are about Moriarty.
Unless of course, the theory is that Mary is behind it all.
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- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
They can be about both. I think the episode is about Sherlock's subconscious as such. And the dominant elements are Moriarty, Sherlock's complicated relationship with John/Mary, and his issues with Mycroft.
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- dioscureantwins
- Adler's Whip
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
They can be about both. I think the episode is about Sherlock's subconscious as such. And the dominant elements are Moriarty, Sherlock's complicated relationship with John/Mary, and his issues with Mycroft.
In the end I think it's also about Sherlock fearing he may be like Moriarty. The conversation on Barts rooftop has just gained a whole new dimension from TAB.
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Oh, yes. Very good point.
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- dioscureantwins
- Adler's Whip
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- Posts: 227
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
I think the waterfall scene means John will safe him from himself for ultimately he refuses to listen to Mycroft. But with John's loyalties divided he can't be too sure. And ultimately Sherlock believes he isn't good enough for John, being nothing but an addict, despite his insistence that he isn't. That's what both scenes in the Victorian Diogenes Club are all about, Mycroft confronting Sherlock with his dependency on drugs.
- Mothonthemantel
- British Government
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- Registered: January 4, 2016
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
They can be about both. I think the episode is about Sherlock's subconscious as such. And the dominant elements are Moriarty, Sherlock's complicated relationship with John/Mary, and his issues with Mycroft.
In the end I think it's also about Sherlock fearing he may be like Moriarty. The conversation on Barts rooftop has just gained a whole new dimension from TAB.
Yes this. Moriarty in Sherlocks head is like the dark side of Sherlock .Usually he keeps his dark thoughts and desires chained up , like in HLV Moriarty was in like a cell in chains encouraging Sherlock to die and saying he would like being dead. Also in Hound when Sherlock , again drugged , saw Moriarty as his worst fear which is the loss of control to sentiment . I guess it's a reflection that inside the mp everything is really Sherlock talking to Sherlock .
"Man may not be degraded to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
- mrshouse
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
On another point that struck me. I'm not really sure it is important at all. But why did Mary get the "M" note at Baker street at all? I mean, why not at her own home? Does this maybe somehow link with the fact she came in disguise as a client, although she would have no trouble being shown up as John's wife?
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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.
"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you" - Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.
- tonnaree
- The "B" is SILENT! (Mod)
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- From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
On another point that struck me. I'm not really sure it is important at all. But why did Mary get the "M" note at Baker street at all? I mean, why not at her own home? Does this maybe somehow link with the fact she came in disguise as a client, although she would have no trouble being shown up as John's wife?
I thought that was very curious. Someone knew exactly what she was doing that day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.
Honorary German
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
-Vaclav Havel
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong." Melissa Ethridge
I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Very good point. Does this mean she spied for Mycroft on Sherlock and was spied on by him as well?
And there is this:
Last edited by SusiGo (January 7, 2016 5:00 pm)
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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- mrshouse
- Stayin' Alive
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- Posts: 3,802
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Hm, I'm not sure. Anyway, in the scene with John and the snappy maid the went to the lenghts to show the Watson's home. So it's not a lack of coulisse. 
------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.
"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you" - Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.
- nakahara
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- Registered: February 22, 2014
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Very good point. Does this mean she spied for Mycroft on Sherlock and was spied on by him as well?
And there is this:
This is a good point being made in that meta!
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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?
- nakahara
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Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
And here´s another interesting point:
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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?
