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January 7, 2016 2:17 pm  #541


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Thank you for sharing that find Vhanja! I feel like that scene has a lot to say. 
And how lovely to see how John has Sherlock's back! 

I have been pondering too, if Sherlock used that way of describing Lady Carmichael to actually talk about Mary... Very interesting! 
 


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January 7, 2016 2:21 pm  #542


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I love these guys. I love how Martin can portray so much with so little. 

Could be a mirror, although I feel Sherlock just as easily praise those he has respect for as he is rude to those he hasn't. 


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January 7, 2016 2:34 pm  #543


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

ancientsgate wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

Ancientsgate: I think it would be quite unprofessional not to know at this point where the story is going. And it would also be unprofessional to base your writing decision on how much you like a character. This also applies to the argument that Mark would never let Mycroft die because he loves to play him. 
That said they are in the lucky positions that people can return in flashbacks or Sherlock's mind, i.e. having their cake and eat it. 

I'm certainly not questioning their professionalism, not sure where you got that idea. It takes all kinds to be creative in this big ol' world, and no one would ever suggest that Sherlock's writers and creative staff haven't been highly successful at what they all do. Everything is (I'm sure) on the up and up.

You said, I think it would be quite unprofessional not to know at this point where the story is going. So you think that all the creative decisions for S4 and perhaps into S5 have already been locked and loaded?  It is possible, but I find that doubtful, since when writing fiction, it's usual and customary to allow the story to ebb and flow as a work in progress, be subjected to extensive editing in committee, and only towards the very end of the process be completely written in stone.

Yes, they can always bring back Andrew's Moriarty as flashbacks or in a mind palace scenario. But people do hate to stay dead in Sherlock, so....  I will not be surprised, however they decide to keep Andrew in the cast and use his character--  the options available to the writers are many and varied, which must be exciting for them.
 

I remember Mark and Steven talking about a rainy day when they sat down and drafted the basics for series 4 and 5. This would include things like who is dead and who is going to die, I suppose. The actors and actresses have also mentioned that they know where they are going, at least with series 4. Of course they may change details and will do so, but I cannot believe that at this point they do not know if Moriarty is dead or not. This is a very big thing. I personally still believe he is dead and TAB has not changed anything about this, quite the contrary. 


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January 7, 2016 2:41 pm  #544


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

ancientsgate wrote:

You said, I think it would be quite unprofessional not to know at this point where the story is going. So you think that all the creative decisions for S4 and perhaps into S5 have already been locked and loaded?  It is possible, but I find that doubtful, since when writing fiction, it's usual and customary to allow the story to ebb and flow as a work in progress, be subjected to extensive editing in committee, and only towards the very end of the process be completely written in stone.
 

Example: Harry Potter. The story line for all 7 books had been ready even before book 1 was published.
 


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January 7, 2016 3:13 pm  #545


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Harriet wrote:

Example: Harry Potter. The story line for all 7 books had been ready even before book 1 was published.
 

She actually had the end written down by the time about half the books were out. That didn't mean she didn't have to edit along the way.And write the book themselves.

I think it's the same with Sherlock. Moftiss know the gist of where this is going, but not the details.

Last edited by Vhanja (January 7, 2016 3:16 pm)


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January 7, 2016 3:29 pm  #546


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Harriet wrote:

ancientsgate wrote:

You said, I think it would be quite unprofessional not to know at this point where the story is going. So you think that all the creative decisions for S4 and perhaps into S5 have already been locked and loaded?  It is possible, but I find that doubtful, since when writing fiction, it's usual and customary to allow the story to ebb and flow as a work in progress, be subjected to extensive editing in committee, and only towards the very end of the process be completely written in stone.
 

Example: Harry Potter. The story line for all 7 books had been ready even before book 1 was published.
 

There are all kinds of methods for writing fiction, and that just happened to be JK Rowling's.  Not every author has a complete and working outline before they even start writing, but that method (obviously) worked for her!

I don't go to tumblr, don't pay any attention to what Mofftiss et al say in interviews or at cons, so I don't know anything about their methods, planning, or anything. But I would, as I said, never question their professionalism.
 

 

January 7, 2016 3:31 pm  #547


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Swanpride wrote:

Which is a good thing...it is always a problem when writers don't think ahead.

And it can also be a problem when an author locks himself into a certain outline and won't let the creative juices flow along the way.  But again, different methods work for different very successful writers.
 

 

January 7, 2016 3:48 pm  #548


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I have to say, though - there is one thing that bothered me, from the first time I saw it. Victoran Holmes is seen in a meditative pose while being in his MP. However, seeing as both Sherlock of today and Victorian Holmes are known for being so dedicated to "pure reason and cold facts" that they even shy away from "sentiment", taking up meditation is the very least they would do, as that is a religious/spiritual practice.

(And if I am to nitpick even more, what he is doing is a yoga pose, that wasn't broadely known to the Western world until Beatles with TM and the hippie movement, late 60s and early 70s).


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January 7, 2016 4:35 pm  #549


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

kgreen20 wrote:

I'm afraid I've missed the episode.  Any chance someone'll post it to YouTube?
 

Um, try BBC iPlayer. It should still be showing for a fair while yet.

 

January 7, 2016 4:36 pm  #550


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I was just wondering because I've read England 1920ies books that mention Yoga as quite fashionable in certain upper class circles.

Wikipedia says: "Yoga came to the attention of an educated western public in the mid-19th century along with other topics of Indian philosophy. In the context of this budding interest, N. C. Paul published his Treatise on Yoga Philosophy in 1851."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga#Reception_in_the_West

Last edited by Harriet (January 7, 2016 4:37 pm)


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... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 4:37 pm  #551


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Oh, that's awesome! Then perhaps it's time relevant.

Then again, is it something Holmes would do?

Last edited by Vhanja (January 7, 2016 4:37 pm)


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


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January 7, 2016 4:45 pm  #552


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Well, we don't know - but it seems ACD was most interested in spiritualism. Which was in those times connected to the early Yoga movement.

Wikipedia has an own (and long) chapter in it's ACD page named

Spiritualism, Freemasonry

Doyle had a longstanding interest in mystical subjects. In 1887 he joined the Society for Psychical Research and was also initiated as a Freemason (26 January 1887) at the Phoenix Lodge No. 257 in Southsea. He resigned from the Lodge in 1889, but returned to it in 1902, only to resign again in 1911


Wow, I didn't know that before! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Conan_Doyle#Personal_life

Last edited by Harriet (January 7, 2016 4:45 pm)


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 4:56 pm  #553


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Now this is, uh, - remarkable! 

The Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Centre - Home of the Edinburgh Association of Spiritualists
http://www.arthurconandoylecentre.com


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 5:23 pm  #554


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Personally I hope they don't go down the spiritualist route.
I am so glad with TAB that(as with HOB) there was no suggestion of anything supernatural.


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January 7, 2016 5:26 pm  #555


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Of course they won't and I wouldn't want that either. But now the yoga position seems not all surprising to me, after this little research. It seems something that ACD might Sherlock do.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

January 7, 2016 5:27 pm  #556


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

asylum69 wrote:

kgreen20 wrote:

I'm afraid I've missed the episode.  Any chance someone'll post it to YouTube?
 

Um, try BBC iPlayer. It should still be showing for a fair while yet.

Yup, 29 days after first broadcast


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January 7, 2016 5:33 pm  #557


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

ancientsgate wrote:

Harriet wrote:

ancientsgate wrote:

You said, I think it would be quite unprofessional not to know at this point where the story is going. So you think that all the creative decisions for S4 and perhaps into S5 have already been locked and loaded?  It is possible, but I find that doubtful, since when writing fiction, it's usual and customary to allow the story to ebb and flow as a work in progress, be subjected to extensive editing in committee, and only towards the very end of the process be completely written in stone.
 

Example: Harry Potter. The story line for all 7 books had been ready even before book 1 was published.
 

There are all kinds of methods for writing fiction, and that just happened to be JK Rowling's.  Not every author has a complete and working outline before they even start writing, but that method (obviously) worked for her!

I don't go to tumblr, don't pay any attention to what Mofftiss et al say in interviews or at cons, so I don't know anything about their methods, planning, or anything. But I would, as I said, never question their professionalism.
 

Steven said several times that one'd be quite a bad writer if they didn't know where they where going. There's a video on the forum in which Moffat answers questions on writing, if I'm not mistaken.

So yes, I assume that Mofftiss know roughly where they're heading but not the finer details.


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January 7, 2016 5:51 pm  #558


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Oh, trivia :D
I knew he was very much interested in Spiritualism, but I had forgotten the dates.

What I also find interesting is that Doyle had resigned from the Lodge in 1889 and returned in 1901 -that's when he was the most productive, seeing as there were a lot of short stories published in The Strand- and Sherlock Holmes stories started being published in 1887, two years prior to his joining the Lodge.

Last edited by Lilythiell (January 7, 2016 5:52 pm)


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I'd be lost without my blogger.
"It’s not a ‘gang’ show, it’s the Sherlock and John show. It’s about developing their characters and their relationship, and the characters drawn into their orbit.”  Steven Moffat



 
 

January 7, 2016 5:53 pm  #559


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

Mark and Steven have spoken about some of ACD's more unfortunate interests.


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January 7, 2016 6:31 pm  #560


Re: The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

I don't find those interest unfortunate in the least when it comes to ACD. Spiritualism was very popular in Victorian times. I just don't think they fit the character of Sherlock Holmes.


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