BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

besleybean · January 3, 2016 4:04 pm

Janine?
He really didn't wrong her as much as she makes out and I think she forgave him...
Unless she's the new Moriarty?!

Liberty · January 3, 2016 4:11 pm

Yes, it's interesting that Janine appears around the time of the story about the spurned bride. Sherlock didn't leave her destitute or anything, but he clearly did wrong her, and feels contrite.

Kerkerian · January 3, 2016 4:13 pm

In any case it's interesting that she was included. Since her accent sounds a lot like Moriarty's, there may be a connection- or not, and the writers are only messing with us again.

besleybean · January 3, 2016 4:27 pm

Quite!

silverblaze · January 3, 2016 4:30 pm

I'd really hate seeing Janine as the new villain. I think she was a nice person. She doesn't like Sherlock but he's properly wronged her and he knows it. I'm just hoping for a new character, hopefully just as intriguing and creepy as CAM. Canon is full of great villains, Gruner is still one of my favorites but there are plenty of other great ones too.

On a slightly related note, I'm curious if anyone shares this sentiment: what I really didn't buy was Mind Palace Moriarty as a virus. He doesn't do anything virus-like, instead he helps Sherlock back to reality, reminds him why he's on the case. Then the second time, when Sherlock is back into the Mind Palace, he pulls him out again. If his actions are anything to go by, it's Sherlock's survival mechanism.

besleybean · January 3, 2016 4:32 pm

Was the 'virus' just referring to Sherlock's obsession with Moriarty?

Liberty · January 3, 2016 4:40 pm

Here's the Bride's song, if anybody is interested (obviously, I was!):

It's kind of an odd song to sing at a wedding and an odd thing to sing when killing somebody ("Do not forget me"? He doesn't have a chance to!). I wonder why that song was chosen? I suppose it maybe is a little more appropriate for the bride to sing before she kills herself ... and maybe (as it's in Sherlock's mind palace), the "Do not forget me" is directed ultimately at Sherlock. The song does seem to be about thinking about a girl who is long dead.

besleybean · January 3, 2016 4:50 pm

I saw it as referring to Moriarty.

Liberty · January 3, 2016 5:10 pm

I don't know ... it's not that long since Moriarty died. But I suppose it could be - it's a similar line to "Miss me?".

I'm not clear if the song is just in Sherlock's mind palace or if it was mentioned in reports from the time.

SolarSystem · January 3, 2016 5:47 pm

silverblaze wrote:
On a slightly related note, I'm curious if anyone shares this sentiment: what I really didn't buy was Mind Palace Moriarty as a virus. He doesn't do anything virus-like, instead he helps Sherlock back to reality, reminds him why he's on the case. Then the second time, when Sherlock is back into the Mind Palace, he pulls him out again. If his actions are anything to go by, it's Sherlock's survival mechanism.

Which would make perfect sense in relation to HLV. After all, Sherlock finds Moriarty in his mind palace and Moriarty, through talking about John being in danger, helps Sherlock get back to life.

besleybean · January 3, 2016 5:49 pm

Good point.

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 3, 2016 5:51 pm

Yes, a very good point!

silverblaze · January 3, 2016 6:45 pm

Yeah but surely a survival mechanism is something worth keeping. Not push off a cliff.

besleybean · January 3, 2016 6:47 pm

True!

Vhanja · January 3, 2016 8:15 pm

Not sure if it's only me, but I felt that Sherlock looked very different on the plane in TAB then he did in HLV. There is something off with his eyes, his skin colour... is it just clever make-up/lighting/acting? When he tears up the list and asks Mycroft to pardon him like a "proper big brother" he doesn't really look like himself at all.

Milaya · January 3, 2016 8:16 pm

I've just finished the special and I was wondering if Mofftiss really showed us everything that happened in 1895 - because referring to a tweet from Arwel Wyn Jones (01/02/2015) I missed the scene with a tanned baby... To be honest, I expected Emelia Ricoletti being abandonned penniless in America - while being pregnant. I thought that she'd given birth to a sweet baby boy but decided to give him up for adoption shortly afterwards. Maybe she wanted to protect him from brutes with racist motives and give him his best chance. Unfortunately I believe the kid wasn't quite this lucky.

But why do I think so?
Well...Emelia Ricoletti ends up on a balcony in front of a bakery shooting and shouting at men. She looks like the perfect revengeful bride just seconds before she fakes her own death. But the last "you...are me" is different to the others. It's so soft, it nearly sounds motherly. So just an idea: What if she'd recognized her grown up son dressed up in a special way by his feminist adoptive mother so she could identify him, spare his life and save up this image of him before she dies?

It wouldn't be an uncommon motive in my headcanon.
To me "The maid of the Mill" is a reference to a famous "Millers daughter" who also became a ghost.
And Johns savior appearance in the end? From "W.A.T.S.O.N." TO SWAN.
Just saying.

Liberty · January 3, 2016 8:23 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Not sure if it's only me, but I felt that Sherlock looked very different on the plane in TAB then he did in HLV. There is something off with his eyes, his skin colour... is it just clever make-up/lighting/acting? When he tears up the list and asks Mycroft to pardon him like a "proper big brother" he doesn't really look like himself at all.

Oh, definitely. That's why I find it difficult to accept that he'd taken the drugs beforehand (although other things lead me to believe he did!). He's in a completely different state and yet it's only a few minutes later.

ancientsgate · January 3, 2016 8:37 pm

besleybean wrote:
I concur.
I do think this was a one off, different episode.
I look forward to returning to normal service in S4.

And no more such obvious Halloween-ish themes.

ancientsgate · January 3, 2016 8:39 pm

besleybean wrote:
Sorry, I am still not 100% convinced he is dead!

But as Sherlock observed, (I paraphrase here), "Of course he's dead. No one survives shooting themselves in the mouth, and I saw him do it!" What I can't remember is, was that the real Sherlock who said that, or the mind palace Sherlock.

ancientsgate · January 3, 2016 8:40 pm

James Norrington wrote:
Sorry, it's not our fault we think that way, they just keep on playing with our minds and therefore we just don't know what to believe and so we just start believing what we want. How can anyone blame us after this episode?

What he said *points at James*.