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I feel the same.
She'd a really good villain (M theory and all), and it'll be really hard -what am I saying? It could be impossible- to having her as a nice, loving wife.
And, well. She didn't seem to give two hoots about Sherlock OD-ing on the plane, after all -when comparatively speaking, John and Mycroft were...rather alarmed, to say the least.
Pretty sure there's something there.
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She did stick up for him and not for the first time. I will try and copy and paste here my comment I made about this, on the very aptly named 'Abominable thread'!
Er, of coure I can't!
Anyhow: Mary retorts: 'just like he says', supporting what Sherlock had said about the Victorian case.
It reminded me of her supportive" oh well he would need a confidante' comment, in TEH.
Last edited by besleybean (January 3, 2016 10:21 am)
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She doesn't seem bothered about the drugs on the plane, but she does go pretty quickly to trying to help Sherlock solve his case. Funnily enough, without questioning too much about why on earth he needed to know about a Victorian murder. Mycroft was "being mother" in that situation - she certainly didn't need to be (and thank goodness she wasn't - I hated the whole idea of Sherlock as John and Mary's child in TSOT). But she tuned in to what Sherlock was trying to do, and used her particular skills to help.
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Okay, so I put my thoughts about the last two pages of TAB discussion in here:
1) having different opinions on the matter is more than welcome, otherwise this place gets boring quite quickly.
2) BUT I feel that negativity and overall positivity are just two sides of the same medal
3) I don't have the feeling it's only the users who don't like Mary are the ones who get emotional
4) my opinion: I don't agree with what has been said that Mary would be criticized just standing there. I have stated always that it would be the most unsatisfying solution in my opinion if HLV was just swept under the carpet. That is what they did now and my discomfort with this is along with what I said before.
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I have always said that the point is Sherlock and John have moved on from Mary shooting Sherlock, so I don't understand why everybody else can't.
I also see a double standard: Mary seems to be held up to account more than Sherlock...who murdered a man, in public, in cold blood.
Nobody has to like Mary, nobody has to want her in the show. But John stands by her. She's his choice and I respect that.
Apart from that she seems perfect for him, they are both adrenaline junkies.
She also clearly likes Sherlock as much as John does.
She also clearly has the blessing of Mycroft.
I don't know what will happen with Mary in S4:
but she may still be with us.
I will accept whatever the team do with her.
I repeat: I never wanted her in the show and I want her out. But if she stays, I can live with it.
But I don't feel a need to try and disparage her and make her unsuitable for John. I don't see this in the show.
To be honest, it's the baby that intrigues me more.
Last edited by besleybean (January 3, 2016 11:38 am)
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Mrshouse: But how do we know if it has been swept under the carpet? We cannot expect something to happen in the few minutes between the plane starting and landing. Or a heated she-shot-me discussion inside the plane. They do long-term story arcs and wherever Mary's story is going to take her, it will need time. And if we decide to believe the writers and assume they for once do not lie about the "dark, devastating series 4" there will be dramatic events involving Mary in one or the other way. And I am sure that there will be more surprises and "strong, tough woman being cleverer than all around her, including Mycroft" would not really be a surprise, would it?
Btw, someone had the idea that the first wake-up scene was Mind Palace as well. Not sure about that but Mary hacking into MI5 via Sherlock's phone and Mycroft meekly sitting by reminded me very much of Mind Palace Mary and less of real life Mary. And, btw, how come she is suddenly a hacker as well? On top of being a top assassin? Or could it be that Sherlock hacked into MI5 and she just used his access? I was just quite confused about that scene and still am.
Last edited by SusiGo (January 3, 2016 11:39 am)
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Besley: it's great for you if everything works at face value. For me it doesn't. I have stated that they gave me too little to forgive how she was portrayed until now. And tbh I don't like to be accused of double standard. I never excused the shooting of CAM and never will.
Susi: you might be right. It takes time. And being back in RL. Ah, I must rewatch the episode;-)
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It seemed fairly clear to me that Mary was being shown to be a strong, clever woman...which she was also shown to be in S3.
For what reason, I don't know...
Building her up to replace Mycroft?
Or building her up to knock her down in S4?
Sorry, mrshouse. I wasn't accusing you of anything.
I meant I saw a double standard in the situation.
It is up to other people to own comments, I wasn't directing them(or that one) at any particular individual.
I would have named you in the post, if I meant you!
Last edited by besleybean (January 3, 2016 11:50 am)
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I don't think Mary's past has been swept under the carpet - it's addressed in TAB (to my surprise). Mycroft is aware of what she is, and nobody blinks an eye about this all being out in the open on the plane (when was it discussed?), and it's hinted that she's working for Mycroft. (I'm surprised that hasn't caused more of stir!) As for the hacking, she's an intelligence agent - we don't really know what she's capable of. I think we concentrate on the "assassin" part, because that's the most pertinent, but it's clear that she has other skills.
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Besley: But that would require that people forgive the shooting, no? From the top of my head I cannot name a user here who's happy with it.
Liberty: I think that's exactly the sweeping under the rug. Just moving along with what she did, no harm done. No mentioning of the stuff that would make Jihn stop loving her ( he certainly wouldn't if she was just a hacker?) . And I'm not sure - but that might be me having missed it upon first viewing- where in the modern setting the collaboration is mentioned? In the Victorian setting it's pretty clear, but in the plane scene? Please help me if I missed something there.
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How could anybody be happy with Sherlock being shot by anybody, let alone Mary?
For me that's not the point.
I accept the reason given for why she did it and I accept she has been forgiven by Sherlock and John and they have both moved on from this...I am able to do the same.
Why do you think John would stop loving Mary?
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Mrshouse, you didn't miss anything - it isn't mentioned, but it's hinted at. After all, why would Sherlock have Mary working for/with Mycroft in his mind palace? This wasn't something that actually happened, but something his mind put there. Then when they're all back in the present day, it's clear that Mycroft knows who Mary is, and is aware of her skills. It seems to me a huge hint that Mary is or has been working with Mycroft - although that might not turn out to be the case. I do like the idea of Mycroft being aware of Mary all along. It explains why he didn't check her out, why he warned Sherlock off (both Mary and Magnussen), possibly why he was so easily manipulated into giving up his laptop, etc.
I think the shooting thing has been dealt with in HLV, and I don't think it would be useful to bring it back. But I agree, I'd like to see more about Mary's assassin past, not just her intelligence agent past. I suppose it was fine not to put that into TAB as Mary is only in it for a short while, and I wouldn't have particularly liked her to be the focus .. but it's possible that it's alluded to, with the women planning murders of people they think deserve to die. The funny thing is that Mary is the only woman (well, apart from Mrs Hudson) who doesn't seem to be part of that! I get the impression she was used to operating solo rather than in a team. And I keep having to bear in mind that all the mind palace stuff is about how Sherlock sees her and the case, rather than necessarily how she is.
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Liberty wrote:
Mrshouse, you didn't miss anything - it isn't mentioned, but it's hinted at. After all, why would Sherlock have Mary working for/with Mycroft in his mind palace? This wasn't something that actually happened, but something his mind put there.
But in the same mind palace, Molly was depicted as a leader of terrorist organisation. Is she like that in RL too, I wonder?
If not - why should we believe that Mary is Mycroft´s helper all of sudden?
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Well we don't know...just surmising.
I think Mary hacking was RL, anyway.
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So if we assume that Mary is working with/for Mycroft, Mycroft would accept that she nearly killed his brother, the brother he tries to protect at any price. He would accept her around Sherlock, working with him, fully aware of what she is capable of. Sorry, but this does not make any sense to me.
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I'm sorry if it doesn't.
But for me, everything we have been shown indicates Sherlock and John have both forgiven Mary and moved on and that she has Mycroft's blessing.
Do we have to feel bad for all of these 3 people on their behalf?
To me they all seem quite capable of making their own decisions.
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I do not feel bad for them. I feel bad about the logic of the story. But since I am convinced that this is not the whole truth, I can sleep quite well.
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That doesn't answer what Susi said. That it doesn't make sense. And furthermore: with Mycroft's blessing she had no real reason to lie and be threatening. It would reduce her story in HLV to a cheap gag.
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Yes, mrshouse. This.
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nakahara wrote:
Liberty wrote:
Mrshouse, you didn't miss anything - it isn't mentioned, but it's hinted at. After all, why would Sherlock have Mary working for/with Mycroft in his mind palace? This wasn't something that actually happened, but something his mind put there.
But in the same mind palace, Molly was depicted as a leader of terrorist organisation. Is she like that in RL too, I wonder?
If not - why should we believe that Mary is Mycroft´s helper all of sudden?
We don't have to believe, but I'm surprised nobody else sees it as a hint or possibility.
No, there's no indication that Molly is working for a terrorist organisation in real life. We don't even see her in the episode outside of the mind palace. (There were parallels, though. She did conspire with Sherlock to procure a body to fake a death and so was involved in setting up a murder/suicide. But I think what was striking was that Molly couldn't even be in his mind palace as a pathologist - she had to be "Hooper". And she seemed to be one of the women Sherlock felt he'd slighted in some way - a bit unfairly, but it was part of making him think).
Whereas Mary could have just been John's wife in the mind palace, if that was her role in real life. I would think that Sherlock has her working undercover, because it needs a woman to do that piece of work and she has been an agent - but, why make a point of her working with Mycroft? And then show her working in front of Mycroft in real life? I'm certainly not saying it's definite, but it would make sense that Sherlock thought of Mary working for Mycroft because she was working for Mycroft, and real life backs that up.
I do think the hacking is probably real life. It's not a surprise to us that Mary would have secret agent skills, after all. The big surprise is doing it with Mycroft there. And I do think some of the episode has to be real life.
Last edited by Liberty (January 3, 2016 1:37 pm)