BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

besleybean · January 2, 2016 8:55 pm

Oh I see...digital is a download, isn't it?
God I am hopeless!

tonnaree · January 2, 2016 8:58 pm

What if it IS twins?

http://benlocked.tumblr.com/post/136451920699/sherlock-and-the-case-of-the-hybrid-spoilers-we

Liberty · January 2, 2016 8:59 pm

Don't worry, I wasn't sure either! No, it's streaming (watch it online), so you probably need to have decent broadband. And can obviously only watch when connected to the internet.

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 2, 2016 9:02 pm

I just woke from the coma I went into after getting home after my second time seeing it, this time in the cinema with my friend... and I'm waiting for the rerun to air in 15 minutes on BBC 3...

Seeing it at the cinema was amazing. People were laughing their heads of several times, and my friend actually had to hide behind me during some of the scenes with the bride!

I will need to read the transcript... my ears again... but I caught some more things at the cinema I hadn't already. And, the episode really, really benefited from a second watch. When you know the frame you can catch a whole lot more... This is what makes this show, and this particular episode so clever. I wasn't bored with watching it again... even if my friend still thought I was nuts seeing it before going to the cinema... ah well. We don't see eye to eye in our obsession and that's okay!

besleybean · January 2, 2016 9:03 pm

My colleague who went was terrified as well...I wasn't!

I do hope it is twins!

nakahara · January 2, 2016 9:04 pm

ancientsgate wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
Yeah, the show puts those woman in robes at the most gothic of places....and then Moriarty turns up and calls Sherlock out for adding those flourishes because even in his mind he likes to be dramatic. The important core in all of this is what Sherlock says about the position females had in society with "not even a vote", and that this is a fight they must lose because the females are right to demand more respect. There is no need to look for subtext, because for once, the text is as clear as it gets.
Funny-weird, that with only 90 minutes to work with, they'd take so much time and make such a big point about women's suffrage, back then and now, and in such a dark, obtuse way. Dressed up like pagan-Druid-KKK types and marching and chanting around inside a darkened "desanctified" church. WTF? That whole thing came out of left field (for me) and I still cannot imagine why it was included.

You know the opening scene when the crazy bride was up on the balcony and shooting down into the street, choosing her victims and terrorizing everyone down there, making them scream and run around? That so closely parallels what's going on today, when a lone terrorist gunman takes out his psychotic agenda on strangers in a public place, often from a vantage point that's hidden or up high. It kind of made me sick to watch that.

EXACTLY! (big applause to you)

I loved the story of TAB, I loved the insight into Sherlock´s mind, but I cannot accept this version of "feminism" (because it isn´t that!) and I ask myself what kind of crappy morality they force down our throats together with this excellent show.

nakahara · January 2, 2016 9:06 pm

tonnaree wrote:
What if it IS twins?

http://benlocked.tumblr.com/post/136451920699/sherlock-and-the-case-of-the-hybrid-spoilers-we

I believe that the twins theory is very plausible.

SusiGo · January 2, 2016 9:11 pm

tonnaree wrote:
What if it IS twins?

http://benlocked.tumblr.com/post/136451920699/sherlock-and-the-case-of-the-hybrid-spoilers-we

Interesting. Remember the "M" on the note she got from Mycroft. Could be his initial or one of the other various Ms in the story - Moran/Morstan/Moriarty.

besleybean · January 2, 2016 9:13 pm

Here comes the repeat...my pencil and notebook are poised!
Couldn't do this in the cinema last night!

mrshouse · January 2, 2016 10:16 pm

Thanks to a special someone (you know who you are ) I was able to watch it tonight already. Oh myohmy....
Just a couple of thoughts:
1) the visuals were astounding. Absolutely beautiful.
2) I actually liked the dynamics of Sherlock and John as their Victorian alter egos. Very much so, it was a nice and refreshing new take on the former series and movies like the Rathbone and Brett interpretations.
3) the story of the bride started full of suspense but in the end the solution....well. I awaited it to be a bit more interesting. When the theories of the women from the match factories flooded the web I found that an interesting idea. Like that it felt a bit forced upon me, the topic of the women treated badly and with no vote. I think if that was an issue for Mofftiss it could have been done with a bit more build-up. It felt a bit out of the blue.
4) Hell, Moriarty was creepy. And I'm glad he's dead. That's it for him and as much as I loved him I'm happy he's not dragged along any more.
5) I loved the take on the Reichenbach fall! John coming to rescue Sherlock! Wonderful! And the classic fall after the jump from St. Barts! I feel, all of us might move along now from it!
6) Fat Mycroft... No, just no.
7) Mary. What I dreaded the most: everything swept under the rug and part of the inner circle of trust. After seeing her like that I see even less a future in the series for her. In every scene where she's involved she takes away from the two leads, that's the way I see it. And she's set up in a very unsympathetic light, stalking John at Baker Street and starting a domestic there. Even less sympathetic the plane scenes where just everybody is less smart and skilled than her. No thanks. The last we get to see is the " Better!" with a look that made me want to run away. Mofftiss, is that what a strong female character in2016 is for you? Double no.
8) And for the records: I loved Molly bossing Anderson around, she was brilliant! And Mrs. Hudson... aaawwww... And I really had to smile when Janine stepped into the light.
So, all in all, much better than I expected.
But if Solar is right and this is the set up for Mycroft dying and Mary taking the place of the superclever " England's government" that shall be my last day in fandom.

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 2, 2016 10:30 pm

I have a question... and it might be a stupid one...

Is Molly limping? Does she usually walk with a limp? I noticed her dragging her leg a bit as she's introduced... and she seems to limp too when she's revealed.

SusiGo · January 2, 2016 10:31 pm

Yes, I wondered about that, too. Could have happened during the Carmichael murder when she climbing through the window. She was not limping in the morgue, was she?

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 2, 2016 10:33 pm

I thought she was, she seemed to be dragging her leg a bit after her... at first I thought it might be from the menswear or something... which she isn't wearing in the end...

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 2, 2016 10:59 pm

Aaah! Thank you!

I was actually starting to doubt myself... I hadn't noticed Molly limping before on the show before this episode!

Neat!

SolarSystem · January 2, 2016 11:05 pm

mrshouse wrote:
7) Mary. What I dreaded the most: everything swept under the rug and part of the inner circle of trust. After seeing her like that I see even less a future in the series for her. In every scene where she's involved she takes away from the two leads, that's the way I see it. And she's set up in a very unsympathetic light, stalking John at Baker Street and starting a domestic there. Even less sympathetic the plane scenes where just everybody is less smart and skilled than her. No thanks. The last we get to see is the " Better!" with a look that made me want to run away. Mofftiss, is that what a strong female character in2016 is for you? Double no.

Yes to all of this. I have no idea why Mofftiss seem to think that giving us such a female character could mean an improvement for the show. Like you said, mrshouse, it takes away so much from what I fell in love with initially. If things continue like this, it'll be time for me to move on. Happened with "Doctor Who", might happen with "Sherlock" as well.

SolarSystem · January 2, 2016 11:08 pm

Sorry, dear, but the time hasn't come yet.

mrshouse · January 2, 2016 11:11 pm

Sorry, but I wouldn't dream of waving anyone goodbye who would be devastated if Mary was leaving the show.

Harriet · January 2, 2016 11:15 pm

Neither me, mrshouse. *shrug*

About Mary, the last word hasn't been spoken yet.

besleybean · January 2, 2016 11:16 pm

Molly does shuffle a bit: she does in the scene where Sherlock appears to her in TEH.
Anyway, I've just finished watching for the second time and have taken copious notes...I'll whack them all down here:
won't get them all done tonight as I am going to bed in about 15 mins.
I really want them down for my own record, so I will honestly not be offended if everybody just scrolls past without reading!
- hey I thought I saw Lestrade loitering in Speedwell's doorway, just as we are taken into 221B
- Holmes seemed to really enjoy Watson correcting his misdiagnosis. He likes clever Watson!
- I loved the ' fear is wisdom in danger' and presume it references Sherlock's own facing of fear in HOB.
- Is it relevant the bride says 'you or me' before shooting herself; does that refer to either Sherlock or Moriarty having to die?
-is the song relevant: 'do not forget me'? Again, is Sherlock not to forget Moriarty?
- it being 'our song'. Does that refer to Moriarty's; 'Stayin' Alive'?
- when Sherlock says 'til death do us part'...are he and Moriarty only separated by death, does Moriarty have to die twice?
- 2 references to the devil: 'the devil drives and ' waiting for the devil''...references to Moriarty?
- Mary clearly states her friend is England. So she's on the good side and linked to Mycroft, who is all tradition and the state and the government...queen and country.
- 'Hooper' refers to Holmes' 'magic tricks', just as Sherlock uses that term on Bart's roof.
- actually Sherlock only ever says ' 1 feature of interest' and that is John being good at stuff and always saving him...is the 2nd point of interest that Moriarty is alive?!
- Watson talks about 'an older brother who died'...is that a reference to 'the other Holmes brother'?
- I hadn't noticed Watson raise his hat to Hooper, indicating she is female.
- Is there a link between the deep waters of Sherlock's MP/drug state and Reichenbach waters?
- The case was over several months. It seems the Watsons first lived at 221B and only moved out during the case....or at some point!
- Watson clearly worries about Mycroft's weight as he worries about Sherlock's drug use.
(All for now...part 2 tomorrow!)
Ok part 2...I see the debate has moved pages on.
Well I'm going to continue with my notes here.
I did also have a few thoughts about future implications.
I will try and separate them at the bottom of this spiel, but may repeat them on the 'predictions for S4' thing thread...
-Mycroft says ' they are right, we are wrong'...an endorsement of suffragism I shoud say.
- Plus, he states that he sends Sherlock the Carmichael case as a distarction. So Mycroft knows he has to keep Sherlock busy, to keep him off the sauce.
- There were a lot of references to the tick tocking of the clock...I do hope it's not more foreshadowing of a life force coming to an end.
- Sherlock states 'we make our own ghosts'...so is he fantasising about Moriarty still being allowed?
- he goes on about 'shadows that define our every sunny day'...certainly Moriarty, or drugs, I suppose.
- I loved the spinning house to show the passage of time, but did wonder if it linked to the ticking clock of time passing
- Watson refers to the 'man to man' talk. Holmes clesrly looks uncomfortable at that: it's a bit like a man and boy talk!
- I thought tht image of the ghost in the mirror was a bit like Mary's image projected onto the house wall
-'There are no ghosts' snaps Holmes...clearly angry. So is Moriarty definitely alive?!
- 'you saw what you were supposed to see', a line borrowed from HOB.
- 'Miss me?' Holmes reads on the 'note' and goes very odd...
- The light in Mycroft's office could be a sign of us having Sherlock illuminated to us, but he does look like a bit like he's at The Inquisition!
- Sherlock's comment about Mycroft having put weight on overnight. Distraction or is he in a druggy state?
- Does the '2 days mediatating' link to the '2 years hiatus'?
- Moriarty only appears to Holmes when he's high.
- Moriarty does the neck tweak, which I noticed the bride doing, too. In fact Mary often stands with her head on an angle!
- An interesting comment of Moriarty's, not to use toys in killing as he wantsthe 'intimacy in death'.
-Holmes comments on Moriarty trying to distract him, a bit like M does in the 'cell' scene in HLV, when Sherlock speaks with 'dead' Moriarty.
- Moriarty rises again, after shooting himself in the mouth...
- 'It's the landing that kills you' states Moriarty.
- the rocking in the flat seems to mimic the plane as it bumpily lands on the runway.
-Sherlock clearly seen to be 'out of it' at this point.
- 5 mins since Mycroft has called.
-Sherlock again tries to a distract with a comment about Mycroft's weight.
- 'like he says' retorts Mary, as though she's on Sherlock's side. I bit like in the cafe when she says" oh but he would need a confidante'.
- 'you haven't moved' comments Watson...does he mean 'moved on from the drugs?!
- Holmes states to Watson 'never doubt', his concern for Mary, as he nearly collapses. Reminds me of when he tells John he can trust Mary, as he's collapsing into the paramedics arms.
- He also refers to Mary as an 'excellent choice of wife'.
- Mary refers to Mycroft as ' the clever one'. Is she in league with him?
- I'm assuming Hooper got the other body from the morgue, just as Molly does in Reichenbach.
- all it takes is a little skilled make up.
- Holmes speaks of the wrath of the venegful ghost...is that Moriarty?
- Sherlock clearly refers to the investigation as the fanatsy. The crime was real...
Sorry I got this next bit wrong before: John wants Sherlock to concentrate on the new Moriarty threat, not on the Victorian crime.
- even the corpse tells Sherlock : 'do not forget me'...is that Moriarty speaking?
- Moriarty is Sherlock's weakness.
- Again Moriarty tells Sherlock to lie back and lose, just as he tells him to embrace death in HLV.
- John always saves Sherlock.
- 'think you woke up, Sherlock' is that literally waking up to the truth?
- John says it was his turn to push Moriarty over the metaphorical cliff...
- Sherlock diving mimics the plane landing.
-Sherlock is ' a man out of his time'.
Ok well I had a few thoughts about S4, but this is enough here.
I will take my thoughts to the other thread.

Last edited by besleybean (January 3, 2016 9:02 am)

SolarSystem · January 2, 2016 11:17 pm

mrshouse wrote:
Sorry, but I wouldn't dream of waving anyone goodbye who would be devastated if Mary was leaving the show.

It's all fine. This just reminds me that there are certain parts of this fandom I definitely wouldn't miss.