This requires several viewings to catch everything they threw at us. I absolutely LOVED IT!!!  Wondered how they would incorporate Molly Hooper. Brilliant! The ending was awesome as well. Victorian and modern London meld into one. Lots to dissect.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

....The list was definitely the list of drugs that Sherlock had taken. As a native English speaker, that was pretty clear to me so I can def. confirm that for all you guys. 

Huh. I'm  a native speaker too, albeit with a different accent than yours, and I didn't understand that list to be a list of drugs at all.  ???  John's comment about, "That could kill you!" could mean drugs, but it could also mean some outlandish thing Sherlock planned to do about Moriarty and the case he knew was coming up. Sherlock's always risking life and limb, after all. As I said, though, ????  Much is yet to be explained.
 

SusiGo wrote:

That he overdosed before saying goodbye to John is killing me. And reading the blog about their beginnings. The whole episode is just about love, pain, brotherly care, suppressed feelings, oppressed women, digging into your psyche, drug addiction … Amazing. But I wonder what casual viewers will make of it. 

Casual viewers will probably think it's a bunch of nonsense. A Halloween tale that makes very little if any sense. My poor husband watched with me and seemed to kind of enjoy it, he actually lol'd a few times, but he has no idea who the supporting characters are and no knowledge of the backstory, so he got pretty lost. So casual viewers probably won't give it one thought after they turn their TVs off. Mofftiss is writing for the Sherlock fans now, IMO, and no one else.
 

Definitely a list of all the drugs and percentage solutions, I'm sure of it.

I loved those few moments when the MP and the "real world" collided.  Did you notice that very brief moment in the carriage when Victorian Sherlock looked back at John who was suddenly in his blue checked shirt and no mustache?  Then, in the next instance, John was back to Victorian "Watson". Love that kind of stuff!  And loved it when suddenly we are back in the plane on the tarmac.  A great surprise and a welcome one.

Miss Sherlock Watson wrote:

........I wish I could have seen everyone's reaction to the costume. I'm sure it must have been priceless...

A couple of times I turned to my husband and observed that they must have had to give everyone at least 10 minutes to stop laughing before they could start filming, when they first saw each other in their new looks. Lestrade was unrecognizable, pretty much.  And of course Molly.  And poor fat Mycroft, who was as addicted to food in Sherlock's mind palace as Sherlock was to his cocaine.
 

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:

....The sign language made me laugh like I was torturing an owl! I need to ask my friend tomorrow if she recognised anything... though I think Danish and English sign language has its differences.......

We have something here called American Sign Language, and it's recognized as a distinct language in its own right. I wonder if American Sign Language people can understand British Sign Language and vice versa?  'Cause it looked really strange to me--  maybe because when I see sign language on TV or in the movies, it's probably almost always the American type. ???

_____________________________

Well, call me crazy but much of what we saw throughout the special seemed like it was getting us ready for the return of Moriarty — which I still firmly believe would be better for the series than sticking with the idea that a brilliant arch villain did his enemy a big favor by just killing himself.
 
And let’s remember that the crazy Victorian women faked her suicide, committed murder, then actually killed herself.  How does that parallel Moriarty’s straightforward “Well, good luck with that”?  Bang. 
 
The exchange of dialog at the end can’t really be taken too literally, can it?  I mean, look at the contradictions.
 
“Sherlock, hold on.  Explain.  Moriarty is alive, then?”
 
“I never said he was alive, I said he was back.” 
 
(Right. He’s not dead-and-gone. Just dead. But not gone.)
 
“So, he’s dead.”
 
“Of course he’s dead.  He blew his own brains out.  No one survives that.”
 
(Okay, a simple statement of fact. No argument there. Thank you, God. )
 
“I just went to the trouble of an over-dose to prove it.”
 
(Oh dear, wait a minute . . . a long drug-induced mind palace session proved . . . what exactly? )
 
“Moriarty is dead.  No question.”
 
(Ah-ha!  We’re back to reason and sanity.  Jim is not only really dead, he’s really most sincerely dead.  And his little dog, too, if he had one.)
 
“More importantly . . . I know exactly what he’s going to do next.”
 
(Oh dear oh dear oh dear.  Cue the Lollipop League.  It’s their turn now.)
 
Friends and neighbors, I’ll stick my neck out and say that the special was designed to keep the debate alive, not to end it (and to give loyal fans on message boards many happy hours of typing practice).  I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.  Meanwhile, somebody please just shoot me, ‘cause I’m going to end up on drugs too before this series ends!
 

Last edited by Bruce Cook (January 2, 2016 5:42 am)

I have just got here and there are SEVEN pages already!
I'm gonna scroll right down from the first post, take notes and then respond!

Okay, my responses(this may be in more than one post...I need to go and get ready in about 15 mins!).
This will be very disjointed, cos it'll be a mixture of my responding to your posts and adding bits as I remember them!
Yes it was very clever.
Yes I am very confused.  I am still not 100% sure that Moriarty is dead, though I LOVED them taking the piss out of the twins idea.(Almost felt that was directed at me and telling me not to be such an idiot!)
The paralell with the bride faking her own gun shot death: could be relating to our other known faked deaths. Irene and obviously Sherlock himself. But with it being  a gun to the mouth, seems to directly refer to Moriarty...which could imply he didn't die on the roof. But maybe that 'escape' refers to him escaping justice and then the roof scene correlates to the bride becoming a martyr...well, self-sacrifice. So did Moriarty sacrifice himself for the sake of his network?  I dunno!
So we were right in our gusses they were gonna show Mycroft fat. Loved it. Yes comical and possibly Sherlock having a go at Mycroft's weakness, as Mycroft goes on about his use of drugs. But possibly Sherlock is geunuinely worried about Mycroft, as Mycroft is about him.
The death thing was a bit worrying, could be indicating Mycroft's departure. Will he sacrifice himself for Sherlock? It could also just be seen as a discussion on the frailty of life for us all. But also refer to the fact that Sherlock does literally live on the edge?
Incidentally: fat Mycroft was still super smart, very in control and threatening. He is the brain and Sherlock definitely is the legs and literally 'half the man that his brother is'.
Why were people so puzzled by HLV? At the time it was fairly clear to me, but I do like the links between it and this Special.
The 'elope' line was definitely the best in the episode. Still the playful, flirting Moriarty, poking fun at Sherlock and his pet John. Mixing violence and sex possibly, tho I suspect he doesn't do relationships either.
Love the Canonical nods and also those to Private Lives etc..(incidentally, I saw people reference the extras, which you TV people didn't get? Martin talks about his era of Sherlock and more obviously Watson).
Anyhow, I am only about a quarter of the way down on about 4 pages of notes...but see you later!

PART TWO:  Johnlock: I knew you would all love it. I feel exactly the same as I did before about it, it's a gay joke. Plus tied in with Moriarty and Sherlock playing with and teasing each other...it's all part of the game.

On the drugs thing: very prominent in this episode. Is this to deal with it once and for all?  It was used cleverly to explain a lot and was fitting for the Victorian period. But yes, we do get to see Sherlock as a struggling addict and it doesn't take much for him going off the rails. Mycroft is only too aware of this. He is controlling his eating addiction, but Sherlock isn't quite so successful.On the OD: I feel he did it ON the plane. I think he knew what he was going to do and I think that's possibly why it looks like he's been crying on the plane.(and Mycroft didn't know what Shelock was going to do). This is why he asked for the moment with John and why he was desperately trying to say goodbye to John. Did he mean to kill himelf, or did he just know he couldn't get through the 6 months without drug support? John seems to know from the list that it would kill Sherlock(but John is a doctor). Mycroft specifically uses the term OD, so we may have to take it at face value, it was meant. Possibly the formula was relating to that, Sherlock knew how much would kill him. Maybe he normally is in control, but this time he wasn't...I definitely think The List is just that. An arrangement with Mycroft that he writes down how much he had taken and what off. I suspect Sherlock has Od'd once before, maybe this is when Mycroft stepped in, cleaned him up and got him the work with Lestrade. Sally probably hates Sherlock as a dirty addict. I think the List relates to Sherlock's 'list' of things against his mother. Oh but yes, the OD thing could certainly explain Sherlock's odd behaviour on the tarmac and desperately trying to reach out to John...do you think it was the drugs Sherlock was going to tell John about? Just a thought: you don't think  the death obsessive talk with Mycroft relates to ' the right time to die' and possibly drugs will get Sherlock in the end?
EDIT: just flicking back from Liberty and Lily's responses to my post...yes, why write a list if he didn't want to be found and helped? Also yes, is Mycroft chastising John for allowing Sherlock to go back on the sauce in HLV, or is he acknowledging that John will always look out for Sherlock?
I knew Molly straight away, thought it was brilliant...but a tad sad that Sherlock feels he's wronged her- more obvious with Janine. But he certainly seems aware of his bad attitude to women!
Loved seeing Archie, though they didn't name him.
'Redbeard' seems to indicate to me that he was Sherlock's first real love. It was the loss of him that decided Sherlock to never love again. Because when you love someone, they die or leave you.
The whole private talk was a bit awkward and staged. But possibly meant to show the 2 guy mates having a chat thing...or the Victorian gentlemen. Watson clearly wants to know about Holmes and thinks something has happened to make him into the machine...it mirrored the talk on the park bench about Sholto. So is Irene's photo a reminder to Sherlock of a clever woman, or that another time he gave his heart- he lost focus?
Loved the Suffragette theme, fitted the era perfectly and a nod to showing strong female characters. Made sense for Mary.
John's anger at Sherlock. Yes he worries about the drugs, also gets frustrated at Sherlock losing focus and does he maybe think Sherlock obsesses about things like Moriarty?
Sorry this is going back a bit. But the '2 guns' thing...could refer to Moriarty's 'fake' death. We know there were other gun men around...I even remember thinking I heard an off stage gun- but I just don't know. Some symmetry though: 2 guns, 2 fake bodies, 2 deaths....
(Loved the pic the team posted!)
Er 'snogging' between John and Sherlock...no, don't think we'll be seeing that at all nor ever.
(The forum stats as shown...just wow!)
(God I can't read some of my notes...knew it would happen. Something about Andrew!).
Johnlockers really like BBC 3 don't they?  Shame it's going off our screens, soon.
Oh yes but the trolling on 'stand alone episode'...some secrets have to be kept. Yay! I now know what my indecipherable note says: it reads, 'secrecy about Andrew'. Yes, well done on keeping him out of setlock!
Oh I always knew the grave scene of John and Mary in modern clothes would be in The Special, wasn't hundred per cent sure how it would link...but just about got it right.
Loved the sign language. Yes there is American, British and Makaton...I was trained in both of the latter 2, but hardly remember it now.
This reminds me(and I know I omitted it from my notes). Loved how 'Diogenes' turned into 'Absolute silence' and I also loved the newspaper cuttings in front of Sherlock.
Sorry, I can't remember the context of this next bit of my notes. Oh I think maybe the OD/Sherlock crying on the plane: does he regret shooting CAM? On the tarmac, was he going to apologise to John for what he did?
Yes. I first thought Mary was working for Moriarty. Love that it was Mycroft. Does she in the modern world? Is Sherlock wondering this?
On the 'taking the joke too far thing'. With the fatness. Well I personally thinks it works, particularly in reference to it being Sherlock's exaggerated dream. But one could argue that people  take the gay joke too far with Johnlock.
Oh I initially thought the formula refered to the one about the Earth, that Mycroft and Sherlock were talking
about.
Yes again Mycroft asking John to take care of Sherlock: but he always does. He knows Sherlock listens to John sometimes. Is Mycroft going to leave us? Or does he just know John will soon be back wih Sherlock? Does this relate to a plot twist with Mary? Telling John to watch for the drugs...?
I think the light discussion of death between Mycroft and Sherlock could possibly also suggest that life really doesn't mean that much to either of them, they will give it up if the time is right. Maybe Sherlock on the plane thought his time had come...
Oh 'Jabba', really! Did you have to plant that image in my brain? I can't remember how clever Jabba was supposed to be...but controlling and threatening yes.
God I loved the picture of the Reichenbch Falls with the moving water. I adored the WHOLE Reichenbach sequence. It was beautiful, intimate ...and John saving the day.
In fact the costumes were just wonderful. Sherlock looked beautiful.
No it shouldn't have been shown at Hallowe'en. It was a traditional, Gothic, Victorian Xmas mystery.
The Hair: I love the short, sleeked back look...wonder how long it will be in April.
I think John recognising Molly partly links to him being the expert with women, but yes, clever than Sherlock sometimes acknowledges and recognises the obvious.
'Time travel' trope. No, thanks. it wasn't. I wouldn't have wanted that. I like to keep Sherlock and Who separate.
I loved the little look back to the whole modern show at the beginning and was reminded how brilliant it all is!
I did think the 'You' was referencing 'IOU'. So the use of the murderous, double dying bride was definitely about Moriarty...but if he is actually dead- I still don't know!
'Writing for fans'?  I don't think so. NO good writer would do that. Though they are fan boys themselves!
'Snappy Sherlock'?  He is quite snappy in the books...and in the modern series!
Yes I loved the blending of the eras and particulary the glimpse of the modern John in one of the coach scenes.
Do we think that Sherlock acknowledges that yes, he literally left John for 2 years after Reichenbach- but John has left HIM, for good?
'The Real story is about 'Sherlock and John' and not about "Sherlock v Moriarty'....I quite like this idea.
(Still wonder what they will do with villains in the future, if there is no Moriarty...in every good old fashioned fairytale.)
I did also quite like image of John pushing Moriarty over the cliff for good...if that's what it really is.
I also like Liberty's idea that this whole episode was a full insight into the mind of Sherlock Holmes.
I loved the references to the Strand magazine and Sherlock reminding John that he only says these things in his stories.
I loved the meeting scene and how Sherlock selects Watson as his colleague. Watson seems to smile as Holmes is saying the address. Is he pleased he's been chosen?! Oh and I loved the slips between John/Watson between Victorian and modern eras.
I think it would be perfectly sensible of Mycroft to use Mary, because of her CIA skills.
Oh and I meant to say. yes I agree, the use of the letter 'M' on the note was a clear reference to us all being led to believe that Mycroft was Moriarty!
Oh and I also guessed at the mention of the perfume, that Mary was the black lady...hey none of us have gone into any depth about this scene- what with that and John saying he thought he'd lost Mary...what was that all about?! Does it reference Mary really wanting to settle down to a quiet life with John , but just couldn't cos of her past?
Mary is more of a detective than Greg!
The only things I really wanted to add(certainly for now!) are that I loved the locations and the sets and the camera work...the going from The Maze to Sherlock's steepled hands.
Plus, how funny was Mrs Hudson?!
It's repeated tonight...is it BBC 3 or 4?.
Oh, there was more: on 'The Extras', we saw at the cinema.
The first 5 minutes was Steven taking us around the Victorian set. He was so proud and geeky. Loved it.
The bit after. 'the making' of was chiefly Mark interviewing cast members and the Steven interviewing Mark...in his living room and in his socks- I wanted to hug Steven.
A few comments on this: they all clearly adore each other and get on really well.
Andrew and Benedict both just looked stunningly beautiful.
Benedict was his most lovely and charming self altogether, joking with Mark.
Andrew and Mark had their usual giggly carry on, they are a great double act.
(SPOILER  ALERT for one scene in the EXTRAS.....

Did people notice Benedict and Martin sitting side by side, during  break on set? Martin reading a paper and Benedict absorbed in his phone? It dawned on me: this was January: (Benedict would be keeping in touch with the wedding planning!)




ADDENDUM: 1. love Lola's suggestion that both John and Moriarty are Sherlock's weaknesses.
2. @swanpride. Thought it was odd nobody hardly mentions Mary at all in there responses here. She comes out very well in this and they suggest the: I don't mind you going off on adventures. But yes. She was at the heart of things. Also, she does seem to be brought more into it in the plane scenes...loved her hacking into MI5- her and Mycroft very conspiratorial. But yes too, Sherlock likes Mary: always has and always will?

Oh and (ANOTHER SPOILER ALERT  for an EXTRA scene....
Amanda talks about Mary and John's comfy relationship.)

Last edited by besleybean (February 20, 2016 8:41 pm)

Bruce Cook wrote:

And let’s remember that the crazy Victorian women faked her suicide, committed murder, then actually killed herself.  How does that parallel Moriarty’s straightforward “Well, good luck with that”?  Bang.
 

Yes.  I'm kind of relieved that this episode concludes that Moriarty is dead (I really didn't want yet another person not really being dead), but I thought Sherlock's reasoning was a bit off.    What we saw was something much more similar to what Sherlock did in TRF - faking a death with the help of a real body, Molly Hooper, and a load of other people helping.  In fact the way he described the bride's faked death, it could have been done by Moriarty (and possibly accomplices), with a gunshot sound and fake blood.   The difficult part would have been confirming the body was Moriarty's afterwards - the bride did that by switching the other body for her own ... but only because she was dying anyway.   And we never see what happens to Moriarty's body.   So Sherlock's huge deduction didn't really solve much!

There is a suggestion, though, that he had actually seen Moriarty's brains blown out.   If that's the case Moriarty is definitely dead - it's never a twin!   But if it's the case, you'd think Sherlock would have known it from the beginning and wouldn't have had to do the deduction?

Ok I've added Liberty and Silverblaze's comments to my notes, as they are the only two to have posted since I was last here...but I suppose it's better if I put all my responses into one very long post...to save confusion.
Incidentally I am putting everything here for now...never mind waiting for subsequent threads!
So if you're interested...scroll back to my original post.