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January 4, 2014 2:53 pm  #21


Re: Moriarty's Death

They never really mentioned much about Moriarty... assuming no body had been found on the roof, or thta they are keeping his death secret from the public then that could be why.

However is it possible that Moriarty was working with Mycroft or indeed Sherlock, they like eachother because they amuse eachtother. The only thing I didn't understand was that if Sherlock hadn't anticipated Moriarty would kill himself he would have to make his getaway fooling Moriarty into believing Sherlock was dead (sherlock knew that Moriarty wanted him dead). the Theory given as much as I like it would mean Moriarty would be able to see Sherlock had faked his death.

The main thing I can think of it s that information about Moriarty has been left so that if the writers want to they can bring him back at a later date (after all it is fiction!) but like Moffat said, they cant fake death at eachother what if they met eacother in the street?! He is dead... they have lied to us before but it also sounds pretty conclusive that he is not coming back


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January 4, 2014 2:59 pm  #22


Re: Moriarty's Death

Moriarty is dead. He's dead because he shot himself in the head and you can't fake that. He's dead because the creators have said that he's dead. He's dead because it's canon that he should be dead. And he's dead because, dramatically, his story is done. It would be redundant and boring to bring him back.

Let him go ;)


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January 5, 2014 11:00 am  #23


Re: Moriarty's Death

Wholocked wrote:

Moriarty is dead. He's dead because he shot himself in the head and you can't fake that. He's dead because the creators have said that he's dead. He's dead because it's canon that he should be dead. And he's dead because, dramatically, his story is done. It would be redundant and boring to bring him back.

Let him go ;)

it'd be fun to watch him haunt sherlock as a ghost though if indeed they were to include moriarty again haaahah


Waking up is the second hardest thing in the morning. *girly giggles*




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March 25, 2014 2:50 am  #24


Re: Moriarty's Death

See:  Wikipedia has a great article on The Final Problem - new member and cannot post a link. It explains the Reichenbach Falls in great detail. Sebastian Moran is Moriarty's chief protege and tried to take over what remained of his network following his (Moriarty's) death. Perhaps Andrew Scott will be brought back in that role but a different look.

I want to see them bring back Irene Adler - what a great character!

 

April 8, 2014 3:37 am  #25


Re: Moriarty's Death

Okay. You all have really, really good points on why Moriarty is not going to come back. 


But I'm not ready to believe you just yet.


Sure, you say, "But Coriander- Moriarty shot himself in the face! We saw blood! And brains! HE'S DEAD."

But, then I say, "READ THE BOOKS, DOOFUS."

So yes. Please, just hear me out.

I'm going to go off a few book theories I've heard on various different Sherlock blogs. 

First of all, in the books, there are two Moriarty characters; Jim Moriarty, and Professor Moriarty. 

And, Professor Moriarty (the boss) doesn't like to make big appearances. in other words, he as a lot of people doing things for him. He rarely leaves his desk.

So, what if Moftiss brought this element into Sherlock, without blatantly telling us? 

It would make complete sense- Can we really expect Prof. Moriarty to show up at Sherlock's EVERY BECK AND CALL?

Uh-uh, girlfriend. 

My theory in consensed form:

Jim Moriarty has ben posing as Prof. Moriarty whenever someone requests a meeting with Prof. Moriarty. Jim Moriarty is on the rooftop with Sherlock. Not being HALF as clever as Prof. Moriarty, when Jim deems himself beaten, he gives up and commits suicide. 


Crazy? Crackpot? REAL?


"In 900 years of time and space, I've never met anyone who wasnt important" -Eleventh Doctor 

"Sentiment is a chemical defect found in the losing side" -Sherlock
 

April 18, 2014 3:51 am  #26


Re: Moriarty's Death

Well! It looks like so far, since we don't have any solid proof that Moriarty is dead, (unless someone saw some spoilers somewhere but don't tell me because I hate spoilers) and what we saw with our eyes was Moriarty completely alive, I was right! People are only guessing he's dead, but we have no actual, real solid proof that he is actaully dead.
 


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"I'm not a hero. I'm a high functioning sociapath! MERRY CHRISTMAS!"

                     ~Sherlock Holmes, His Last Vow

"Hello, little brother. Enjoying your exile?"

"I've only been gone four minutes!"

           ~Mycroft and Sherlock Holmes, His Last Vow
     Thread Starter
 

April 18, 2014 7:22 am  #27


Re: Moriarty's Death

We've no proof either way, to be accurate!


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April 20, 2014 10:08 am  #28


Re: Moriarty's Death

True! No definitive proof, although I will be miffed if he suddenly comes back to life (I now it is Easter and all that but really!) Anyhow Jim Moriarty being dead does not preclude another Moriarty being alive.


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April 20, 2014 10:11 am  #29


Re: Moriarty's Death

This is so.


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December 26, 2015 4:22 pm  #30


Re: Moriarty's Death

___________________________

It has always bothered me that the brilliant and diabolical Jim Moriarty couldn't think of a better way to complete his master plan to force Sherlock into committing suicide than to pull out a gun and liquefy his remarkable brain matter.

The presence of the gun does seem to indicate that Moriarty actually planned to shoot himself  — which is very troubling for folks like me who were totally convinced that the whole point of this story was to pit two brilliant men against each other in a battle of intellects.



With that in mind, consider this:

After telling Sherlock about the snipers who would kill his friends if he didn’t jump, Moriarty’s work was done. He didn’t need to hang around debating the issue with Sherlock, he could have just waved goodbye and gone down to the sidewalk to get a front row seat for the event when Sherlock turned himself into street pizza.

The one-and-only reason Moriarty had for staying on the roof was to watch Sherlock squirm and wriggle while he wrestled with the horrible realization that his mandatory suicide was a done deal and he had no choice.



But then Moriarty inexplicably ventilates his noggin’ with a bullet, preventing him from enjoying his moment of triumph! It’s completely out of character, completely illogical, and it’s damned unsatisfying to fans like us who totally got what was going on  — until the gun appeared.

So, I submit that we missed the obvious.

Moriarty pulled the same trick that Sherlock did  — he faked his suicide to manipulate the situation and achieve his goal. It’s completely consistent with all the other devious things he’s done  — like creating a story-telling TV personality who convinced everyone he was hired by Sherlock to break into the Tower of London and then stand trial for it without offering any defense because he had secretly terrorized all the jurors into letting him go.

Surely a man who can get away with all that and more  — despite the combined efforts of Scotland Yard and the great Sherlock Holmes  — could think of a better solution to a possible problem with his plan to destroy Sherlock than just saying “aaaah” and sticking a gun in his mouth!

With all due respect, folks, I submit that my suggestion actually corrects the flaws that seriously mar the plot if Moriarty really couldn’t think of anything smarter than to just ventilate his cranium.

Besides, I would love to see an upcoming episode in which Mycroft reveals the actual suicide hoax to the patient and long-suffering John, while Sherlock smiles with pride — until Mycroft drops the bomb by revealing that Moriarty was equally crafty and had faked his own death, after which Mycroft's agency held him in secret and tried (through interrogation) to extract info about the man's criminal network.

Like they say in those commercials, “One fireman’s safety net: $799. Two dozen trained government agents dressed as bystanders: $14,123. The startled look on Sherlock’s face: priceless!”



And oh-my-God, picture the big grin on John’s face at that moment! Wouldn’t that be the perfect pay-back for Sherlock’s loyal and forgiving friend?

I can just see Mycroft as he gives Sherlock one of those sleepy smiles with his head titled back just a tad as he slowly says, “Didn’t see that one coming . . . did you, little brother?”



Last edited by Bruce Cook (December 28, 2015 4:11 am)


A good debate is like a fencing match — you don't have to win to get a good workout.
 

December 26, 2015 4:50 pm  #31


Re: Moriarty's Death

Ok guys I'm so glad this thread came up.
I've been thinking about this...almost forever!
I don't know if this is going to feature in The Special or not.
But before we see it, I want to state here and now: I am firmly of the opinion that Moriarty is still alive...well, as firm as I can be- for now!


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December 28, 2015 3:22 am  #32


Re: Moriarty's Death

___________________________________

I don't know if it means anything, but there is a quick shot of Moriarty in the "Sherlock Season 4 Official Trailer" on YouTube at this link.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6OdClmlVMU

It looks like this.


Certainly makes you wonder, doesn't it? 

And two years ago I concocted a very plausible theory as to how Jim faked his own suicide right in front of Sherlock and then was arrested by Mycroft's men moments after Sherlock jumped off the roof. (They were waiting in the stairway for that very reason). 

Mycroft didn't tell Sherlock about this, so Sherlock didn't know Moriarty was in custody the whole time Sherlock was traveling the world while he dismantled the master criminal's network.  Therefore, Moriarty hasn't return from the dead — he just made a clever escape from the high security cell Mycroft had him in.

My reason for being so certain about this is actually very simple:  two brilliant men went up to the rooftop, each one intending to outwit the other.  Both of them had plans that dealt with every contingency, and neither of them had the slightest intention of dying, because that wouldn't be the victory they desired.

Elementary, my fellow members!  :D
 

Last edited by Bruce Cook (December 30, 2015 10:55 pm)


A good debate is like a fencing match — you don't have to win to get a good workout.
 

December 28, 2015 4:27 am  #33


Re: Moriarty's Death

Sorry, don't want to interrupt this discussion which I highly love and appreciate (as I do not have any really specific or good ideas about how he might have faked his death but just hope he did) but the 'official' trailer for series 4 is obviously a fake as they haven't shot any of it (heard they'll start in April). So no footage of Moriarty in series 4 is available and I'm quite sure that even if he'd be in it they wouldn't put him in the trailer.


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December 28, 2015 5:42 am  #34


Re: Moriarty's Death

Oops.  You got me.  Or THEY got me, to be exact.  Sorry . . . and thanks for setting me straight. :D

Last edited by Bruce Cook (December 28, 2015 5:44 am)


A good debate is like a fencing match — you don't have to win to get a good workout.
 

December 28, 2015 11:14 am  #35


Re: Moriarty's Death

Also, not nice posting supposed spoilers aside from a spoiler thread.

Last edited by Harriet (December 28, 2015 11:15 am)


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December 28, 2015 12:44 pm  #36


Re: Moriarty's Death

So just as well it wasn't a spoiler.
I don't know if S4 is written yet, but they sure has heck haven't started filming.
So there is no way on this Earth we could yet have a trailer.
Official or otherwise.


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December 28, 2015 5:38 pm  #37


Re: Moriarty's Death

If one believes it is from S4, don't post it please, thank you very much!


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

December 28, 2015 5:43 pm  #38


Re: Moriarty's Death

For future reference, yes.


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December 29, 2015 2:12 am  #39


Re: Moriarty's Death

I didn't realize a trailer was considered a spoiler.  I thought it just teased the viewer's interest and fueled speculation.  But if a legimate trailer showed that Jim had returned, it would spoil the suprise, definitely.  Sorry.

Last edited by Bruce Cook (December 29, 2015 2:20 am)


A good debate is like a fencing match — you don't have to win to get a good workout.
 

December 29, 2015 8:33 am  #40


Re: Moriarty's Death

But it was illegitimate...so all is good. Tee Hee.


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