Well, to be honest I didn't see all the episodes, so maybe I missed some of the best ones. The one you were talking about is the one with the twodimensional monsters? I did like that one. I also loved seeing the moon hatch, though the events leading up to that I thought were rather contrived, and Clara makes an idiotic decision. 

I don't think they were referring to this refugee crisis because that wasn't happening when the episodes were written. I also thought it was more about negative reaction to immigrants in general, funny to have the Brits to play that part for a change. 

Another thing, maybe a bit far fetched but Truth or Consequences: ISIS? It could really refer to any cultish group, including political ones. 

I did love evil Clara, I totally didn't see the two final twists coming. And is it just me or was absolutely every speaking character except the Doctor in this episode female? I thought that was weird after a while. I don't think this is how they're going to kill Clara though, a bit too random for a compagnion that was in the show for so long. And don't we still have the Orson storyline hanging? Surely, she must be pregnant then. I don't think Moffat would just forget about that. Or can timelines be changed? They can't, can they? I missed the connection of Achildr and Clara, though, what is that about?

SPOILERS FOLLOW ....



Ha ha, love that last line!  And still possibly true, as we don't know if "Osgood" is a Zygon.  I don't like the explanation about Orson.  I feel he has to be a direct descendant of Danny if he looks exactly like him ... although thinking of it, it's more likely that he's a twin or a clone if he looks exactly like him.   I wonder if Danny left some genetic material behind?  I was convinced Clara has to be pregnant, but maybe they're going to leave that all behind in the last series and not refer to it.   There's still unresolved stuff to deal with in this series.   What's the last will and testament all about?  What's the hybrid?  Ashildr is protecting the companions and Osgood is protecting the world - what from?

I really enjoyed The Zygon Inversion.   I loved teh Doctor's big, heartfelt, moving speech at the end.  And then found out that he'd practiced it several times (at least I think so - I thought his comment about Kate's memory being wiped 16 times, meant that they'd been in that room for a while, with the Doctor trying various approaches and wiping memories until he got the "right" result?  Is that what you all took to mean?)!  That reminded me of his moving speech to the Fisher King, which turned to be a ploy to get him out of the way!   Although I still think he meant what he said in this episode - it seemed to be pretty close to the bone, and fitted with other things he'd said. 

I did think, oh, for goodness sake, why does it always have to come back to Clara (in the speech)?  But then thought, as Bonnie is in a duplicate of Clara's body and Clara is able to connect with it, it probably made sense to bring her into it, if he was trying to influence Bonnie. 

Was there ever a chance that Kate was going to push the button?  I didn't think so.  But then the Doctor had to wipe memories several times - was that because it went wrong with Bonnie, or because it went wrong with Kate?  He does seem particularly grateful to Kate! 

I loved that the whole point of the Osgood box was just to get people to talk!  I couldn't decide if the message was pro- or anti- unilateral disarmament.  Probably neither!  Lure them in with weapons of mass destruction, then get them talking . 

I just finished watching Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead from series 4, what a great story! And I finally get to see the beginning of the River Song arc. Now I am waiting for my tears to dry before I go collect the kids from school *sniffle*

ukaunz wrote:

I just finished watching Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead from series 4, what a great story! And I finally get to see the beginning of the River Song arc. Now I am waiting for my tears to dry before I go collect the kids from school *sniffle*

Ah, this is one of my favourite episodes ever. I think Moffat was at his best when he was writing episodes for DW without being the showrunner. His episodes during the RTD era are just brilliant. And apart from the fact that he gave River Song a great introduction here, he also gave Donna some absolutely heartbreaking moments.  
 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt we were just left hanging!
Oh and I didn't know it was Reece.
I kept looking at him thinking: god I know that guy, who is he?!
Yes, he was brilliant.
Well the Shakespeare link to sci fi is that it was the storyline form Forbidden Planet, which is based on The Tempest.
I suspect FP is one of Mark's fave films!

Ceratinly of interest to hubby and I: he suffers with sleep apnoea and I'm a total insomniac!

Russell wrote:

Oh, good, I wasn't the only one either! (even if I'm 'late!') ;P
Well, hey, they've been having a pretty darn nice season, always gonna be one or two that don't resonate with you. I just... wasn't sure what to make of it because the format of it right from the start I uncertainly hoped would work as a 'valid' part of the story, and the concept was certainly interesting, but I just didn't completely buy into it, like Liberty said. It just felt dubious, and yeah, left hanging in an odd way. *shrug* But that just me. Part of me half assumed it tied into the next one, again, but not sure it does! Except there was the shortest bit in the trailer of a raven poofing or coming out of a cloud of dust I think, which reminded me of the sandmen?

Also also: Rigsy and Ashildr! And Clara!! Anyone else get the sense that the Doctor has already seen her go, or been clued in that it's soon? He's almost-lost her a couple times already, and gotten a little more affectionate with, and commented 'it was the longest month of my life' the first time it happened, with the Vikings. Not to mention the presence of Ashildr again and how Clara looked in the trailer.... I just hope it's 'good'....

Yes!   There's so much foreshadowing, and something gentle and sad going on there.    I get the feeling there's something he's not telling us (and Clara?). 

And on that theme, Peter Capaldi gave away a couple of major clues on the Graham Norton show last night.

For those that don't have iplayer, he said that tonight's episode is the end of Clara's story.  And was cagey about Ashildr being the next companion.   I don't watch Game of Thrones, but thought she was tied in to that - but wonder if she'll be the companion for the rest of this series?   I'm sure there was a mention of an episode which only features the Doctor, so there would only be a couple of episodes left for her to feature in. 

Last edited by Liberty (November 21, 2015 9:28 am)

I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who was a bit unimpressed with Sleep No More. I though it was a bit chaotic and the monsters were a bit silly. I think I agree with Liberty that more focus on the Shakespeare would have been better. And instead of the monsters, more focus the head cams plotpoint and on the idea of Morpheus and that if you don't visit him in your sleep, shit will happen. (Apparently, IRL, if people don't sleep, they die eventually and no one quite knows why that is.) Overall, I felt like the episode was a bit rushed and the really good bits were gone before we had time to reflect on them. 

Maybe it's just me but I tend to feel a bit underwhelmed with Marks episodes. Robots of Sherwood, The Crimson Horror Stories, and now this one. Not terrible, but I can't say I'm super enthousiastic either. Maybe his style just doesn't appeal to me.

Face the Raven: am I the only one who feels a tiny bit traumatised?

Though surely, the Orson storyline is cleared up now.  I'm not sure how to feel about it. On the one hand it seems like a very offhand way to kill off a character that was so important. On the other hand, it was also quite well foreshadowed; Clara had done a lot of stupid things in this series and the previous one, not in the last place convincing the Doctor to help the Viking village, despite his very legitimate concerns, thus creating Achildr. Maybe it was foreshadowing for this thing, or maybe they used a few awkward character moments to their advantage, who knows. At least it felt IC when one of her reckless actions finally had consequences. The goodbye was so beautiful, major angst. 

I think that's what I didn't like about Clara: she was funny and brave and kind and beautiful, but she could be so stupid and unthinking at times that I sometimes had a hard time relating to her. So in a way, her end seems fitting.I do hope the next compagnion will be a bit brighter.

besleybean wrote:

I thought it was just because I'm only part-Whovian, that I didn't know the writer...
She struck me as a Sherlock fan!

 
I was watching Face the Raven last night, and thought a couple of times that the Doctor was really reminding me of Sherlock...

Well, geez, that was certainly another emotional end!          Sad, stupid, fitting, noble… but certainly brave, I've no doubt the Doctor will agree. 
Maybe I need to watch it again, though…

Not to miss things and all, but not quite sure I get why Me wouldn't help Clara.  You can have the punishment removed, or pass it on, but you can't "cheat it", according to what they said.  That means, with what Me said in apology about, that you can't do both and once it was passed, it was out of her hands to take it back?  But… what about the fact that the murder was known to not be a murder?  Erf… ohkay.

And then there's also feeling silly like I'm forgetting something else - I thought Rigsy was just a random guy that ran into Clara and befriended/helped her in his debut episode.  Only vaguely recall a possible brother/cousin to Danny thing mentioned - were they?  And that's why, with his child, that story clue was wrapped up?  … Ok again, suppose that mostly works.
Otherwise, a bit twistedly strange but neat episode and the way they built it up reminds me of Gaiman's hidden underground in Neverwhere.  Like the idea of places like that existing, and very touching goodbye as well.  But… oh boy… someone trying to get their hands on the Doctor again… someone besides Gallifrey?  Although I know he's headed back there at some point!?  And with two eps left!!!