BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » 1972

Davina · May 31, 2012 6:34 pm

This was brought up in the theories thread but I thought I would give it a separate that as I am sure it is not really relevant to the fall itself.

Mycroft mentions to Joh , while they are at the Diogenes Club that they wouldn't't want a repetition of 1972 would they.

Now there is every chance that 1972 is just a date plucked at random and popped into the script, however I still thought I would do a bit of research to see what I could discover.

I have assumed initially that Mycroft might be referring to events specifically about the Diogenes Club or another Gentlemen's club of a similar kind. In that year the United University Club merged with the Oxford and Cambridge Club. It first admitted women as members in 1992! Also the Public Schools Club merged with the present East India Club. This club was for the illumnii of Public Schools. Which might well fit into Mycroft's social sphere. This club does not admit women as members.

Then I looked at significant events in the UK in that year. It was a very, how should I put it, volatile and eventful year. There was a long running miners' strike, several bombings by the IRA, the terrible events of Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland, BA flight 548 crashed near Staines and killed 118, the worst aircrash until that date, the first gay pride march took place in London, three previously all male colleges at Cambridge admitted women as undergraduates.

Internationally, there were many other important events of course. I have picked out four.Firstly the massacre of the Israeli athletes at the Olympics in Munich. Secondly the race riots on board the USS Kitty Hawk. Thirdly President Nixon's visit to China and finally the start of the Watergate Scandal.

The final question is...to which, if any of these, could Mycroft be referring?

Davina · May 31, 2012 6:35 pm

Apologies for typos! John ...wouldn't etc.

sherlockskitty · June 9, 2012 6:16 am

Davina wrote:
Mycroft mentions to Joh , while they are at the Diogenes Club that they wouldn't't want a repetition of 1972 would they.

Now there is every chance that 1972 is just a date plucked at random and popped into the script, however I still thought I would do a bit of research to see what I could discover.

I have assumed initially that Mycroft might be referring to events specifically about the Diogenes Club or another Gentlemen's club of a similar kind. In that year the United University Club merged with the Oxford and Cambridge Club. It first admitted women as members in 1992! Also the Public Schools Club merged with the present East India Club. This club was for the illumnii of Public Schools. Which might well fit into Mycroft's social sphere. This club does not admit women as members.

Then I looked at significant events in the UK in that year. It was a very, how should I put it, volatile and eventful year. There was a long running miners' strike, several bombings by the IRA, the terrible events of Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland, BA flight 548 crashed near Staines and killed 118, the worst aircrash until that date, the first gay pride march took place in London, three previously all male colleges at Cambridge admitted women as undergraduates.

Internationally, there were many other important events of course. I have picked out four.Firstly the massacre of the Israeli athletes at the Olympics in Munich. Secondly the race riots on board the USS Kitty Hawk. Thirdly President Nixon's visit to China and finally the start of the Watergate Scandal.

The final question is...to which, if any of these, could Mycroft be referring?

Davina--I was thinking of the Israeli athletes being killed in that year, but I can't believe that Mycroft would be referring to that, since it happened in another country. It was THE most tragic thing in that year, in my opinion.

Your research is very well done...thanks for shedding light on this. Now I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm thinking M could have been referring to the Air crash, but I'm also beginning to think that this is what's called a "red herring" that Moftiss threw at us.

arkemiffo · June 10, 2012 10:54 pm

Actually I think we get some more clues if we look at the entire context of the discussion John and Mycroft has.

M: "Tradition John. They define us"
J: "So total silence is traditional, is it?"
J: "You can't even say Pass the sugar"
M: "Three quarters of the diplomatic services and half of the government front bench all sharing the same tea trolley?"
M: "It's for the best, believe me. They don't want a repeat of 1972"

Now, to me it sounds more like an internal embarrassement for the British government. That different departments went head to head against each other. I'm not that good in political history, so I simply don't know what they would be referring to, but I don't think it was the athlete massacre or Bloody Sunday, as none of them was a direct cause of internal governmental fighting.

HoosierPhD · August 8, 2012 2:36 am

There was a major British scandal involving John Poulson involving bribery of high level political officials, but I don't quite see a connection with the scene though. Must be something to do with discussions of government officials, maybe a spy case? I'm confused about this reference also..

sherlockskitty · August 8, 2012 3:08 am

yeah. it's still on our minds, as I can see. we'll have to wait and see what happens in series 3, if Moftiss will explain this.

Wholocked · August 8, 2012 3:13 am

Interesting. Glad I wasn't the only one who wondered. It's possible it doesn't mean anything and they just threw the line in for fun but it may be a direct reference to something.

Any British political history buffs on this forum?

kazza474 · August 8, 2012 3:16 am

I've looked around quite a bit over the last few moths; found nothing concrete but there were a lot 'Russian spy' things happening back then.
Might be reference to soething like that.
Regardless I am SURE there will be a better answer than that.

Wholocked · August 8, 2012 3:46 am

Found this Wikipedia page, which has a lot of fascinating information but nothing that jumps out as being the reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_in_the_United_Kingdom

Wholocked · August 8, 2012 3:53 am

evilbastard wrote:
The same joke has been used a few times, about those tradition-bound British clubs who have some unnamed faux-pas decades earlier that is never detailed.

Found this quote on another forum where someone asked the same question. I suspect that he has hit on the answer.

kazza474 · August 8, 2012 4:04 am

Yeah I do recall old scenes from movies (usually comedies) where they say ' Ah yes but we never mention the beachball incident" and through out , characters will say " ah, not the beach ball incident" or "Do you mean the beach b..." "NO, don't say it!"

Could be, Mark has a nasty little streak in his comedic bone.

hypergreenfrog · August 8, 2012 7:24 am

I may well be wrong, but I assumed that the writers picked 1972 because everybody knows that is was, as Davina put it, a very volatile time. There is no need for a reference to a specific event, we can all invent our own little back story as to what happend after two members of the Diogenes club talked to each other.

Davina · August 8, 2012 6:14 pm

It might also be a bit like those references you get in the canon stories (e.g. Vatican Cameos) about which we never get told any more.

The Doctor · August 9, 2012 12:19 am

I am citing:

The Noodle Incident

Hobbes: What about the noodle incident?
Calvin: No one can prove I did that!
—Calvin and Hobbes

The Noodle Incident is something from the past that is sometimes referred to but never explained, with the implication that it's just too ludicrous for words, and the reality that any explanation would fall short of audience expectations. Questions about it are often met with "You Don't Want To Know…" Persisting is a good way to press a character's Berserk Button.

Commonly introduced to the audience through a Wiki Walk, or by having characters react to some fantastic and improbable event with "Oh no, not again." In any case, the key to this trope is that the audience is left to imagine what happened based on vague hints or clues, with funny (or scary) results.

Named for an incident referenced by the characters of Calvin and Hobbes, where the author admitted he decided against ever stating what happened, as he figured nothing he could come up with would be as outrageous as what the readers thought happened.

The inversion of this would be Let Us Never Speak of This Again, where the event in question is shown onscreen and the characters make a pact to never mention it.

Anoushki · November 5, 2015 9:15 am

Hello everyone!
I just joined the forum after reading this discussion, and I know I might be a little late, but I was re-watching all the seasons again and came across the scene where Mycroft mentions 1972.

The way I understood it was - 'The Diogenes Club' number one rule is that there is no talking. When politicians / diplomats / heads of societies etc... get together and start talking... that's when ideas start brewing - ideas for a revolution, an uprising, a coup, even worse – murder, assassinations, etc... Since 1972 is deemed as one of the worst years for the United Kingdom as a whole, with so many strikes, accidents, deaths and general turmoil, what Mycroft seems to be saying is "It is better if politicians don't talk to each other", thus convincing John of the Diogenes Club rule of silence (and explaining why the security had to manhandle John to stop him from talking).

I hope this makes sense!

nakahara · November 5, 2015 10:39 pm

Thanks for the explanation, it seems very plausible - I was often wondering about Mycroft´s mysterious remark in this scene, but was none the wiser.

tonnaree · November 5, 2015 11:06 pm

I can't believe you're all missing the obvious!

the first gay pride march took place in London

Last edited by tonnaree (November 5, 2015 11:07 pm)

Schmiezi · November 6, 2015 5:11 am

tonnaree wrote:
I can't believe you're all missing the obvious!

the first gay pride march took place in London

I didn't know this. Brilliant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_London