BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » IOU and it's potential meaning(s)

August 9, 2012 9:23 pm

Few days ago i read an interesting theory (maybe it was post here before sorry if it's the case) :

IOU Explanation – 53-8-92 – Grimm’s Fairy Tales Cipher

http://eva-christine.tumblr.com/post/27733467733/iou-explanation-53-8-92-grimms-fairy-tales-cipher

So if IOU are in fact the letters for 3 stories of a specific fairy tales book i'm wondering what about the letter G is for ? I mean when Sherlock reply to Moriarty : " I don’t have to die…if I’ve got you!

IOU / I don’t have to die… if I've got you IGU

It's in fact that he anticipated the all thing, crack the code ? And the letter G refers to a specific story of the book who tells Moriarty how he understand the code i don't know.

Maybe i'm thinking too much plus i'm not sure if what i'm try to say is understanding.

Last edited by TicTacToe (August 9, 2012 9:25 pm)

SandraNM · August 13, 2012 6:19 pm

Davina wrote under one of these topics: "Don't make me into a hero, John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them."

I think that ties in with Sherlock saying he was a fake. That had a lot of meanings in itself.

Also what SH told Moriarty: don't make the mistake of believing I'm on the side of the angels. And declaring he WAS Moriarty. S had the intention of getting M up on that roof and killing him which in his own eyes was not being a "hero".

tobeornot221b · August 13, 2012 6:27 pm

Murmuring IOU to myself, a funny thought just came to me.
What if Moriarty's "I O U" hints at the bug in the shelf:
"(Camera) EYE Observes YOU"?

(Ok, poor attempt. Sorry. )

Lupin · August 13, 2012 7:02 pm

Given that he repeated said "I owe you a fall" and the IOU seems to fit with that theme, I find it difficult to believe there's another indirect meaning behind the acronym.

SandraNM · August 14, 2012 3:31 am

I do think there is definately a play on words written into it. Not necessarily obscure mystical meanings or codes.

IOU: I owe you. Is relative to what Sherlock says to M at the end...I AM you.

And IOU in this movie seems to imply revenge, not just owing SHerlock "a fall". (Even that is a play on words since the title of the episode refers to a waterfall.)

All it really means is that the writers are brilliant screenwriters.

Lupin · August 14, 2012 3:36 am

I definitely agree that the IOU is part of the ongoing dialogue between Sherlock and Moriarty, often signifying a move by Moriarty that culminates in the roof scene at the end.

I just don't think one can try to decompose IOU as referring to a periodic table or some other more complicated acronym that somehow plays an underlying role in explaining the end is all.

deerstalker · August 14, 2012 4:46 am

It's not how they pronounce it, but visually IOU can also stand for I OR YOU ( will survive/win). To quote from Harry Potter- "neither can live while the other survives"- their Final Problem.

Lupin · August 14, 2012 5:23 am

Moriarty's suicide would contradict that interpretation though. To him, it wasn't a question of I OR YOU. It ended with I AND YOU. I think the issue was that they both couldn't live, not that only one can.

221B Baker Street · August 14, 2012 5:27 am

deerstalker wrote:
It's not how they pronounce it, but visually IOU can also stand for I OR YOU ( will survive/win). To quote from Harry Potter- "neither can live while the other survives"- their Final Problem.

That's a wonderful idea!
But during the series Moriarty pronounces 'O' like 'owe'...

August 14, 2012 4:44 pm

Lupin wrote:
I definitely agree that the IOU is part of the ongoing dialogue between Sherlock and Moriarty, often signifying a move by Moriarty that culminates in the roof scene at the end.

I just don't think one can try to decompose IOU as referring to a periodic table or some other more complicated acronym that somehow plays an underlying role in explaining the end is all.

The theory with IOU relate to stories of fairy tales book seems to work for me. But usually i'm not very good with theories so... lol

SandraNM · August 14, 2012 4:51 pm

Lupin wrote:
I definitely agree that the IOU is part of the ongoing dialogue between Sherlock and Moriarty, often signifying a move by Moriarty that culminates in the roof scene at the end.

I just don't think one can try to decompose IOU as referring to a periodic table or some other more complicated acronym that somehow plays an underlying role in explaining the end is all.

Me neither. People that love to find hidden meanings and codes in things will do it. Mostly for fun. Look what people did with the DaVinci Code (and Dan Brown cashed in on it.)

I'm sure there are all sorts of mythological symbols in all stories but I'll leave that to the likes of Joseph Campbell and their books.

August 14, 2012 4:59 pm

I read few things but in fact this is the only theory i read, there are so many about "The Reichenbach Fall" and well i'm say to myself wait and see.

SandraNM · August 14, 2012 11:44 pm

I don;t care what it "means". What did Moriarty owe Sherlock FOR? What was he wanting to revenge?

August 15, 2012 12:01 am

SandraNM wrote:
I don;t care what it "means". What did Moriarty owe Sherlock FOR? What was he wanting to revenge?

Sherlock pretty much ruined Moriarty plans, i means stoping the cabby murderer for a start and then solving the crimes in "The Blind Banker". Moriarty was the guy behind this events, the puppetmaster sort of. Maybe he wanted revenge for that and well he is (was) a bit... crazy. When i first saw the scene with Moriarty in the cab in "The Reichenbach Fall" it reminds me the cabby in "A Study in Pink". The cabby was a very smart guy but he was in fact desperate for money so he killed for that. What a fall for a brillant man, killing for money, and this was an amusement for Moriarty, to manipulate him : watch his "fall". And sherlock stop that. I don't know maybe the revenge was for that.

Last edited by TicTacToe (August 15, 2012 12:12 am)

deerstalker · August 15, 2012 5:03 am

Lupin wrote:
Moriarty's suicide would contradict that interpretation though. To him, it wasn't a question of I OR YOU. It ended with I AND YOU. I think the issue was that they both couldn't live, not that only one can.

I never thought to present it as some kind of important idea, just as a "curious reading #107"; but I don't think Moriarty's initial plan was to die together. The all- important point for Moriarty was to prove his superiority and to "crack" Sherlock ( and to escape boredom, of course). Dying was only a last resort in order not to lose.
Sometimes I think the must be a code to IOU, sometimes I take it at face value ( as an intimidation tactic and a way to mark the steps of taking Sherlock to his fall). Oh the wait...

Lupin · August 15, 2012 5:14 am

deerstalker wrote:
Lupin wrote:
Moriarty's suicide would contradict that interpretation though. To him, it wasn't a question of I OR YOU. It ended with I AND YOU. I think the issue was that they both couldn't live, not that only one can.
I never thought to present it as some kind of important idea, just as a "curious reading #107"; but I don't think Moriarty's initial plan was to die together. The all- important point for Moriarty was to prove his superiority and to "crack" Sherlock ( and to escape boredom, of course). Dying was only a last resort in order not to lose.
Sometimes I think the must be a code to IOU, sometimes I take it at face value ( as an intimidation tactic and a way to mark the steps of taking Sherlock to his fall). Oh the wait...

Yes, I don't think Moriarty intended to die initially, just that he didn't care about living. This suggests it wasn't so much an I OR YOU as much, as you said, proving his superiority and cracking Sherlock by burning him.

kazza474 · August 15, 2012 1:13 pm

SandraNM wrote:
I don;t care what it "means". What did Moriarty owe Sherlock FOR? What was he wanting to revenge?

I think Moriarty spelled that out quite clearly in The Great Game.

Moriarty: You've come the closest. Now you're in my way.
Sherlock: Thank you.
Moriarty: Didn't mean it as a compliment.
Sherlock: Yes you did.
Moriarty: Yeah, okay, I did. But the flirting's over, Sherlock. {sing song} Daddy's had enough now! I've shown you what I can do. I've cut loose all those people, all those little problems. Even thirty million quid just to get you to come out and play. So take this as a friendly warning, my dear. Back off.

Moriarty unruffling his suit: Westwood. Do you know what happens if you don't leave me alone, Sherlock? To you.
Sherlock: Oh let me guess, I get killed.
Moriarty: Kill you? Eh, no. Don't be obvious. I mean I'm going to kill you anyway someday. I don't want to rush it though. I'm saving it up for something special. No no no no. If you don't stop prying I will burn you. I will burn the heart out of you.
................. You can't be allowed to continue. You just can't.

He owes him for all the things that Sherlock has stopped him doing; he has 'fallen' from grace in the eyes of his criminal network; failed to achieve whatever he likes due to Sherlock's 'meddling'. Now he owes Sherlock a fall.

KeepersPrice · August 15, 2012 3:04 pm

Exactly Kazza. I always took Moriarty's "IOU a fall" at face value - no hidden code or meaning - just, 'Sherlock, you're a pain in my arse. You're 'almost' as brilliant as I am, but you're on the side of the angels. Now you're in my way - ever since you made that cabbie speak my name out loud, and when you broke up one of my most lucrative smuggling rings. It's time I made you a fallen angel, both reputation-wise and physically, because we just can't continue like this."

221B Baker Street · August 15, 2012 11:06 pm

kazza474 wrote:
I think Moriarty spelled that out quite clearly in The Great Game.
.....
He owes him for all the things that Sherlock has stopped him doing; he has 'fallen' from grace in the eyes of his criminal network; failed to achieve whatever he likes due to Sherlock's 'meddling'. Now he owes Sherlock a fall.

That's brilliant! (I mean your explanation)
Sorry to use Arthur's expression, but it's just to the point .

kazza474 · August 16, 2012 2:47 am

That is so funny. I have been saying this since 'day 1' as it were and most times I get told 'No, there is more to it than that / that is not what he meant at all / that's too boring, there's an underlying current' etc, etc.

I guess, I could write this post this way:

You guys agree / say "Brilliant'...... people usually tell me to Piss Off!

Thanks for making me feel better for a little while anyway.