BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Why did Moriarty kill himself?

ancientsgate · August 3, 2012 4:39 am

KeepersPrice wrote:
Ancientsgate, I'm coming over to your house to watch it when it does come on so we can squeeeeeee together!

OK, babe, you're on. You bring the snacks, I'll provide the drinks, the napkins, the dishes, the bathroom (hey, you're staying a long while, right?) and a comfy chair to hold your fine self in.

kazza474 · August 3, 2012 4:57 am

SandraNM wrote:
There is something no one seems to have mentioned--not that I read every post on here--but Why did Sherlock say "Give me some privacy, please" on the ledge before he laughed and turned back to say to Moriarty"I have you" referring to way for M to call off the assassinations?

That gave Sherlock time to ensure everything was 'in place' for his "dramatic dive to death" as it were.Alos with Moriarty not standing next to him, Moriarty would not see what was going on down below.

Also, I've not figured out how Sherlock knew Moriarty was going to make him commit suicide.

Moriarty taunted Sherlock quite a bit about 'falling' and the IOUs everywhere. He knew Moriarty was trying to get under his skin & his words gave the impression of suicide being the answer to their problem.

The whole scene on the roof had an aura of being contrived on both S. and M's parts as if they putting on a show for each other. (Some it was sincere but basically it seemed both M and S were setting something up beyond what they were actually saying. (I'm putting this badly but I hope you will get what I mean.)

With all these speculations and possible scenarios, I'd just like to say to the writer about the next season: "Lucy, you have some 'splainin' to do!"

It will be a treat seeing how the screenwriters will wiggle this episode of Sherlock out of all these predicaments. All the obsessed fans aren't going to settle of anything less than genius.

I'm an obsessed fan. Hurry up with Season/Series 3 and take us off the hook.

The rooftop scene was the culmination of the cat & mouse game being played; problem was who was the CAT & who was the MOUSE in the end!?
I think the writing will prove to be perfection as to an ACD rewrite. Simplicity will prove to show the answers. Meanwhile fans will continue to speculate on every breath taken by characters, finding hidden meanings everywhere & THAT is where the waters get muddied. The writers have done nothing wrong at all. I doubt they will have ANY explaining to do ; but as with all stories in this genre, not every breath will be explained, sometimes the beauty is in the mystery itself.
But I have no doubt viewers will be happy with the solution; once again showing the creators for the masters that they are.

SandraNM · August 9, 2012 5:55 pm

Moriarty killed himself because he had to die according to the original story written by Doyle. (You may be surprised how close this series is to the original stories.)

BBC wanted to get rid of Moriarty but didn't want to show Sherlock to be a murderer. If Sherlock was written as a killer it would ruin the character as an admirable sleuth. (If he'd killed M. in self-defence it would make the solution to 'the final problem' be mere violence. And it's only American cops who're allowed to shoot badguys, haha.

In the Jeremy Brett version Holmes went to the Falls planning to take Moriarty out and was willing to sacrifice his own life to do so.

When it shows Watson imagining it he sees it as an accident when they go over the Falls.

If this episode of Sherlock is also John telling the story it's his impressions of events from his point of view not accually what happened.

It had to be faked in any case because Holmes had to disappear, go "undercover" & catch the rest of Moriarty's gang seeking to replace M. I predict this is what the next episode to cover--->the gunman with the high-powered rifle that Doyle called a long-range air-gun.

(If the cops had had to swear out a warrant for his arrest, for instance, it would have made a really pathetic ending in all versions.)

I'm curious to see how the American network show will do the stories. That is IF I can understand Jonny Lee Miller's fake accent.

As far as Bob Downey, Jr's movie: that was all punch-em-out and shoot-em-up and not Holmes at all. Using the Holmes premise ruined the character of Holmes for countless non-reading average movie goers.

Cheers and Toodle-ooo, SandraNM (forgive the typos, I'm tired of rewriting this entry.)

SandraNM · August 9, 2012 6:24 pm

Regarding my posts and comments, I ask questions to make people aware of and think about something, not because I want to know. Duh.

I have no trouble making my own conclusions and finding hidden meanings and spectulating as to what happened and will happen. I probably see way more meaning in everything than there really is. I'm Gemini, we do that. (Take American Beauty for one. I thought about it for an entire year.)

When I wrote here that the writers had some explaining to do, I didn't mean they have to explain themselves and why they wrote what they did/will. It's like the solution to the cliff-hanger in series 1 (season 1). They had to explain how S & J got avoiding getting blown up/shot to move on to the next story line.

The day Sherlock "dies" is, let's face it, the end of the series.

I hope they offer some reasons why M. offed himself. But they probably won't. Rule of thumb: leave 'em guessin' so they'll come back for more.

Thank you SandraNM

kazza474 · August 9, 2012 6:48 pm

SandraNM wrote:
I'm curious to see how the American network show will do the stories. That is IF I can understand Jonny Lee Miller's fake accent.
......

I'm curious as to why you think Miller will use a fake accent.

On the other points you raise I shall only mention one as the rest of the things noted are standard, hence unworthy of wasting valuable time.
I wonder why you would think the writers would suddenly change the point of view that the show is written in, halfway through the episode. Rather an odd thing to do isn't it?

ancientsgate · August 9, 2012 7:53 pm

kazza474 wrote:
SandraNM wrote:
I'm curious to see how the American network show will do the stories. That is IF I can understand Jonny Lee Miller's fake accent. ......
I'm curious as to why you think Miller will use a fake accent.

I wonder about that, too. He is a Brit, raised in Surrey, according to imdb. I'm not familiar with him, but I watched the Elementary extended trailer on you tube just last night, and all I thought was that he had a British accent, not that he was at all hard to understand. Of course the show is being made for American audiences, so they will get him to speak more clearly than he might to an audience familiar with his cadence and speech mannerisms. I also imagine they'll keep the Britspeak down to a minimum, so we won't have to run for our dictionaries to figure out what various expressions and names for things mean. Those who are British and/or non-American probably can't appreciate how hard it is for us to catch every word of the BBC Sherlock the way it originally airs. I get 95% of it, but only when I got the DVDs and had access to the subtitles did I get all of it.

But anyway, is that what you meant, that maybe Miller will Americanize his accent?

sherlockskitty · August 10, 2012 5:40 am

moriarty is or isn't dead? what happened to his body? Did Mycroft find it? too many questions. Moriarty's dead...I like that Idea...but why and what happened to the body?

Davina · August 10, 2012 7:17 am

It's in a drawer in the mortuary.

kazza474 · August 10, 2012 7:30 am

Not the one that Molly stores her lipstick in I hope?

ancientsgate · August 27, 2012 1:18 pm

sherlockskitty wrote:
moriarty is or isn't dead? what happened to his body? Did Mycroft find it? too many questions. Moriarty's dead...I like that Idea...but why and what happened to the body?

And now we have Andrew Scott making an appearance with Motiss at a recent writer's convention (not sure if that's what it was, but something in the last week). Hmmm. If Moriarty's so dead, what's AS doing there talking about Sherlock season 3 with the interviewer? And then he made the "slip" (no idea of course if it was deliberate or not) of using the present tense to talk about Moriarty. Gatiss immediately jumped in and corrected him, "WAS... he WAS..." laugh, laugh, ha, ha, chuckle, chuckle all around.

All I know is, this is the same show that gave us our hero taking a swan dive off a 70 feet high building and living to tell the tale. So.... could be they're either going to resurrect Moriarty, or perhaps introduce Sherlock and John to his evil twin brother. Food for thought, anyway.

Sherlock Holmes · August 27, 2012 1:44 pm

Hm. They did also say he was DEFINITELY dead.

They talked about the theories saying that he couldn't be dead because there wasn't enough brain spatterage for that type of injury or that we didn't see the back of his head blown off, but they basically said the only reason for that was because it was 9pm on BBC1 and they wouldn't have been able to get away with anything more graphic.

kazza474 · August 28, 2012 4:16 am

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Hm. They did also say he was DEFINITELY dead.

They talked about the theories saying that he couldn't be dead because there wasn't enough brain spatterage for that type of injury or that we didn't see the back of his head blown off, but they basically said the only reason for that was because it was 9pm on BBC1 and they wouldn't have been able to get away with anything more graphic.

Yes Mark answered that one ages ago on Twitter.
Andrew was there as he was part of the show that has generated such interest. Recall they tried to have Ben, then Martin & both couldn't do it. They went for the 'next in line' starwise' I guess. Better than having no-one there. He deserved to be there anyway.
As I watched, I wondered how long before the fandom reacted with a new wave of the 'he's coming back' nonsense, lol.

ancientsgate · August 28, 2012 4:20 am

kazza474 wrote:
....As I watched, I wondered how long before the fandom reacted with a new wave of the 'he's coming back' nonsense, lol.

I just love it when you post and tell us our opinions and comments are nonsense. Makes me feel all warm and gooey inside.

kazza474 · August 28, 2012 4:23 am

I referred to the fandom not any individual.

Lestrade · September 6, 2012 5:43 pm

I'm rather torn on this one. My rational self thinks that Moriarty is dead and that's it. He was a madman.

Another part of me is wondering: what if the man we knew as Moriart wasn't Moriarty at all but really just an actor? Can you really fake having received an award for a program? Wouldn't that be easy to verify? (But then, maybe it would for a criminal mastermind?) Sherlock describes Moriarty as "not a man but a spider in a web" pulling strings like a puppeteer (or somethig to that effect). What if that guy really just was one of those marionettes whose strings the real Moriarty pulled? It seems strange that he would kill himself but everone else (like an actor impersonating him) would certainly be expendable to the real Moriarty. And obviously no one had ever seen him so no one can verify that Moriarty was really Moriarty. And the old woman in The Big Game described his voice as soft. Now it may just be me, but Moriarty never sounded soft to me at all.
And Moriarty is THE antagonist. It would be a shame to kill him off so soon ("soon" because obviously I wish for more than just one more season of Sherlock).

Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced of all of that myself but I thought I'd put it out there and see what other people think.

Banbha · September 7, 2012 1:41 pm

ancientsgate wrote:
Those who are British and/or non-American probably can't appreciate how hard it is for us to catch every word of the BBC Sherlock the way it originally airs. I get 95% of it, but only when I got the DVDs and had access to the subtitles did I get all of it.

Agreed. Sherlock speaks very quickly and I've had to replay a few scenes here and there. Whatever, it's no big deal. I love the accent.

Banbha · September 7, 2012 1:51 pm

And one more thing: I'm pretty new to the fandom; I watched both series 1 and 2 this summer. Speaking only for myself, I imagine that most of the things I ask are going to be thought of as "standard" to people who have been around, but they are still very interesting to me. As I cannot read everything on this site (sorry, but I just don't have that kind of time), I'm bound to say or ask something which has already been covered. I apologize if it wastes time, but really...are we doing anything incredibly productive here in the first place?

I join forums because I want a place where I feel like I'm free to talk about all of the things of which I am a fan. In real life, there are precious few people who have even seen the same shows or read the same books I have. I mean, I'm thought of as a geek because I like Sherlock, Doctor Who, Battlestar Galactica, Torchwood, etc. My point is, if I have to worry about possibly posting something which someone else will feel is a waste of time, what the heck is the point of being here?

ancientsgate · September 7, 2012 3:49 pm

Banbha wrote:
And one more thing: I'm pretty new to the fandom; I watched both series 1 and 2 this summer. Speaking only for myself, I imagine that most of the things I ask are going to be thought of as "standard" to people who have been around, but they are still very interesting to me. As I cannot read everything on this site (sorry, but I just don't have that kind of time), I'm bound to say or ask something which has already been covered. I apologize if it wastes time, but really...are we doing anything incredibly productive here in the first place?

I join forums because I want a place where I feel like I'm free to talk about all of the things of which I am a fan. In real life, there are precious few people who have even seen the same shows or read the same books I have. I mean, I'm thought of as a geek because I like Sherlock, Doctor Who, Battlestar Galactica, Torchwood, etc. My point is, if I have to worry about possibly posting something which someone else will feel is a waste of time, what the heck is the point of being here?

No idea who your comments are aimed at, but I can tell you, I've wondered the same things at times.

Banbha · September 7, 2012 4:15 pm

^^Doesn't matter. I'm good; won't mention it again.

SusiGo · September 7, 2012 4:44 pm

I try not to double-post or repeat anything but nobody's perfect and I neither had the time to read everything through. So for me it's absolutely okay if someone asks or says something that has been posted weeks or months ago somewhere else. There have to be some rules but they shouldn't be too strict IMHO. And no one should be afraid of contributing.