Does the Doctor actually change time?  He gives that speech to the Fisher King about doing so, and he appears to be breaking the rules to save Clara, but it turns out to be just a ruse to get the Fisher King out of the building so that he can get in the time pod.   He doesn't actually change the timeline either by saving O'Donnell (or the others) or by erasing the message (although I wondered why he didn't just erase the message from minds earlier in the future if he could do that?  I suppose he still had to carry out his plan to make the place safe for everybody else - or maybe he just hadn't thought it out yet).  I've wondered if he changed it by creating the paradox, but I don't think so. 

Anyway, I did like the fact that, although the Doctor has his soft side, both of his speeches showing how noble or compassionate he is have just been ruses to to trick villains.    He has to be a good man underneath, I think, but I actually like the grumpier, pricklier Doctor.

The trouble with the future (Episode One) starting off on a different timeline, for me, is that all that time, the Doctor is lying there in the pod!  Which means he has already gone back in time and been successful, which means he must have got the message from his future self to know what to do.   (And that's why the Tardis is uncomfortable right from the beginning - she knows there are two Doctors in the present).  

But what you're saying does make more sense in terms of O'Donnell's ghost. 

I suppose what makes this a little different from the Beethoven story is that the Doctor in the past is communicating directly with the future, so rather than taking information back, he gets it "at the time".   But maybe that makes no difference.  I suppose the real reason for that is the "ghost" wouldn't have worked if he'd been there alive. 

Anyway, going round in circles again!   I think they got away with it by explaining that's a paradox right at the beginning (but would still have liked more explanation of O'Donnell's ghost!).   The next episode looks like a fun one!
 

I missed last Saturday's episode(because I was seeing Mark in theatre!).
Do I need to catch up?

Ah of course I forgot it was the resolution episode!
Oh well I may just wait for the new 2 parter, then.

You have to know what happened after the end of Under the Lake, and whether the Doctor died or not!    Seriously, I really enjoyed Before the Flood, so I think it's well worth watching.   Possibly one of my favourite episodes.   I would recommend catching up before Saturday just for that reason, but obviously that's a very personal opinion!  (I don't think everybody was quite as enthused as I was about the episode).

Saturday is a Jamie Mathieson episode (writing with Steven Moffat).  I thought his episodes were a couple of the best of last series, so I have high expectations. 

Last edited by Liberty (October 15, 2015 6:46 am)

besleybean wrote:

I love Steven's writing ,too...
I kind of took it as a given that the Doctor survived!  Tee Hee, 

 
Yes…..  but how??    *mysterious look*   And very interesting timey-wimey stuff again!   

Has anyone else seen The Girl Who Died, yet? I thought it was another great episode, really good fun!

Loved the Mire and the false Odin, and that they didn't turn out to be quite as ferocious as all that!   I don't think I've laughed so much in a Doctor Who episode as when Odin's face appeared in the clouds!   

Some poignant thoughts from the Doctor on being immortal (or living for a very long time).  Understanding baby was touching too.

I do wonder about the other repair kit that he gave to Ashildr: hasn't he just left her with a huge responsibility, to choose who to make immortal?  Maybe the Doctor didn't want to have the responsibility himself?  But what if he needs it later?    I like the tie-in to the old Donna story, but I wasn't sure about the Doctor saving Ashildr after so many others had died - maybe because he'd seen her with her father (echoing the Doctor and Clara?) and made an emotional decision in the moment, and because he'd had a premonition about her. 

Great episode!  And Maisie Williams!  Although Peter is still rocking it.
Spoilers (?) below.




Enjoyed the idea, and another 'historical' ep for once, and all the throwbacks to give us fans a smile ('where did I get this face?' ha, yes, they worked that in somehow! and 'reverse the polarity of the neutron flow!') and the idea of the Mire were pretty interesting. Aww... and the 'speaking baby' coming up again from the Eleventh Doctor. 

Not sure how I feel about the Doctor's choice though, as fascinating as it was to get some very thoughtfully deep insights on making ripples/rules (so true), and immortality that you know he deals with.  But.... but... how could he know Ashildir was a good choice for it?  Like Liberty said, because of how he related to seeing her with her father, and the premonition thing?  How could he bless-yet-curse someone with that?  And then to give her a second one?? (yes, I know, only fair to have someone to share with, as he would very well know, but huge responsibility too!) and to apparently have those things all this time but never want to use them, or think would need them for something else (but again, if he had to pick someone, and in the moment of high emotion with always 'losing' people, thought she deserved it).  So... there's that.  Just my reactions.  Will be interesting to see how 'The Girl Who Died' goes into 'The Woman Who Lived', and whether in the future they'll still run into her once in a while. 

Ha, and besley, totally gave a chuckle with your Viking helmet comment. So much sarcastically smirking 'yes'.

Oh… oh, right.  Of course.     (so that means the Mire is immortal?  Makes sense, with being specifically infamous in the galaxy for their reputation and not losing a fight, I just don't specifically remember it said)
Any other thoughts back?

(This is all just reminding me a tiny bit of Ten being so emotional/angry at so often 'losing', too… especially the people who really made a mark, like happened with a character in The Waters of Mars whom he tried to twist the rules for when he shouldn't have, and the character knew it and didn't agree, because what happened to her led to a specific future that wouldn't have happened otherwise.  So… yeah…  ripples.)

Last edited by Russell (October 20, 2015 9:21 pm)

I like that theory.
I would like to see more of that character.