Precisely. You hit the nail on its head, Dorothy. 

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

Liberty wrote:

Of course an affair is less serious, but it's just an example of where opinions differ on the offender's responsibility and duty - is it to tell the truth, or is it to silently carry the guilt?   Mary's past is much more serious, but all the more reason for her to keep it secret.  If she realy wants to protect herself (and John and the baby) then the safest thing to do would be to carry that secret to her grave.    (Of course, not having any close relationships would be safer too).

My guess is that Mary's new identity was working, and that she thought she could live as the new Mary.   (Which raises all sorts of questions about how much you are your past, but that's another issue).   The telegram from CAM seems to come as a shock, and she very quickly tries to elimate him (the first time John has gone off with Sherlock since the wedding). 

 
But the truth is, her new identity didn't work! She was found out and forced to act. Whether she thought she got away with it isn't the issue; by not telling John she's endangered his life and the life of her unborn child.

Yes, but it did work up until Magnussen found out.  And she tried to eliminate him quickly, so was taking care of that risk.   The way I understood it, Magnussen was the only one who knew who Mary was, and he had that information in his head (hence Sherlock saying to tell Mary that she's safe now). 

And actually, from her point of view, it's safer not to tell John.  She has no idea how he will take that information and what he will do with it.  (In fact, I mention that Mary misjudged John and Sherlock, but personally, I find it kind of surprising that they do accept and help her.  So perhaps it shouldn't be strange that Mary believed they wouldn't). 

Of course, possibly unbeknownst to her, it's not the connection to Mary that causes a risk to John, but the connection to Sherlock.    John being put in the bonfire was nothing to do with Mary, but to do with Sherlock and Mycroft.    If it was purely about John's safety, then Sherlock completely ending the relationship would be the safest thing.  And I suppose by extension, it's that relationship that causes greater risk to Mary too - if there wasn't that chain there, then Magnussen wouldn't have reason to use her (although I'm sure he'd find reason at some point).    So oddly, Mary staying with John puts Mary at greater risk, rather than John. 

However, I'm not sure that she actually knows that, and I'm trying to see it from her ponit of view.  We're given so little information her.  We all know she did wrong, but why?  What were her motivations?  At the moment, we haven't been given any explanation for her becoming an assassin, so that's up for grabs.  But I think there are a few clues to how she behaves later (saying that it will break John and she'll lose him, for instance - I think that's heartfelt and not being said to manipulate Sherlock). 

No, what I'm saying is that the risk, as we see it in the episode, was coming through the Mycroft-Sherlock-John-Mary chain.   Sherlock's at risk because he can be used to manipulate Mycroft, John can be used against Sherlock and Mary can be used against John.   John gets put in the bonfire because he's Sherlock's pressure point, not because of Mary.  In fact, Mary is at risk because of her association with John, rather than the other way around.  (John could be at risk because of Mary, but we don't see any real evidence of that in the show, whereas we do see evidence the other way around).          

Yes, that's when Mary has just shot him and he hasn't done his deductions.   As far as he knows at that point, Mary has killed him, and John is about to walk into the room with Mary still there.   I think that's why "Mary" is his first word when he comes round.

But afterwards, when he works it all out, he seems to think John is safe with Mary (and even kills Magnussen, making sure that he won't be there to protect John). 

SusiGo wrote:

Some thoughts on this:
If I apply this to the show as a whole I seem to come to a very sad conclusion: Whenever John is in danger, it is always due to his friendship with Sherlock. He is targeted because he is the most important person to Sherlock. Sherlock is more dangerous to him than his ex-assassin wife. I wonder if this is really what the writers had in mind when conceiving the show. Because if this is really true, there cannot be happy ending for them ever. It would mean that even if you dispose of people like Magnussen and Moriarty, there would always be some new trying to beat Sherlock by using John. And it would be the ultimate proof of Mycroft's caring theory. 

That is part of it, certainly, but I think the writers are also saying that they can look after each other, protect each other (the point of 'friendship' in John's eyes) - together, they are strong.
 

Now this comforts me a bit. And, yes, not talking seems to be their biggest problem of all. 

Liberty wrote:

I think it's true that John is often in danger because of Sherlock, but he is somebody who has chosen to put himself on the front line.  Safety isn't a priority for him.

Indeed.  Before he met Sherlock, John was pretty safe.  Dully, boringly, depressingly safe.

Now he is in danger fairly often, but it is a lifestyle that seems to make him fulfilled.

Liberty wrote:

I think it's true that John is often in danger because of Sherlock, but he is somebody who has chosen to put himself on the front line.  Safety isn't a priority for him.  (Remember that first conversation about it: "want to see some more?".  Which I believe is a bit of a change in tone from the original ACD story, the way I read it).

 

And actually, since John knows what to expect, if he wants a safe life, he can make an informed decision to not be with Sherlock. He could terminate the friendship, or just not go on cases. He has a choice, because he's informed. Apparently, up to this point, he has chosen to keep working with him.

Or, is that actually true? John stopped working with Sherlock after the wedding, right? Didn't see or talk to Sherlock for a month after the sex holiday?

His choice.

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (October 6, 2015 5:01 pm)

And yet, obviously Sherlock has to be a pressure point for John.  I wonder if Magnussen doesn't list it just because it's irrelevant - the chain is going in the opposite direction.  He's using Sherlock against Mycroft, not John. 

True, but I think what we see is just what's going through his head.  I don't believe, for instance, that Mrs Hudson's one and only pressure point is marijuana.  (Mycroft isn't a pressure point for Sherlock either, but I like to think that he would be, as much as Harry is for John).