BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

tonnaree · October 1, 2015 11:55 am

Whisky wrote:
I knew it was a mistake to mention John in that context...
Be careful on that step, Dorothy, it's probably very crowded already

I've got one step with my name on it just for me. *giggle*

Whisky · October 1, 2015 12:01 pm

Women have seldom been an attraction to me, for my brain has always governed my heart, but I could not look upon her perfect clear-cut face, with all the soft freshness of the Downlands in her delicate colouring, without realising that no young man would cross her path unscathed. Such was the girl who had pushed open the door and stood now, wide-eyed and intense, in front of Harold Stackhurst.

Using the words perfect, freshness, delicate, intense... I really think he must have known something about attraction. Maybe it's not a matter of the heart, but definitely he has an eye for women.

@ tonnaree: I'm sure

Last edited by Whisky (October 1, 2015 12:03 pm)

SusiGo · October 1, 2015 12:14 pm

Yes, Dorothy, I agree. We see Sherlock collecting data from everyone and with Irene naked there is not much data to collect apart from her measurements. And I like the idea of him knowing John's measurements as well. Maybe they are not so unlike the Vitruvian Man.

Whisky · October 1, 2015 12:17 pm

SusiGo wrote:
with Irene naked there is not much data to collect apart from her measurements

Isn't there. Wonder if he knows her eye colour *scnr

Last edited by Whisky (October 1, 2015 12:17 pm)

Dorothy83 · October 1, 2015 12:47 pm

Well, we see that he isn't able to deduce anything else because she is such a mystery (something she obviously works on). So yes, her measurements are the only obvious thing for him - which is why I'm saying that he didn't stop and think 'oh, nice boobs' (not like, for exaple, John noticed Sherlock's cheekbones )

Liberty · October 1, 2015 5:19 pm

I too think he assessed her measurements partly because there was so little information to go on. He was scanning for something, anything! Whether he actually had the measurements in his head while looking at her, or he guessed them from a visual memory of her naked, I don't know. But he did look at her body at some point. (Which makes it highly unlikely that he could possibly misidentify her body at the mortuary - I'm convinced that he was deliberately covering for her).

I think he could (and no doubt, did) find her body attractive just as ACD's Sherlock (in the quote above) can find certain women attractive, but I don't think it was her body that was the attraction .

Last edited by Liberty (October 1, 2015 5:23 pm)

tonnaree · October 1, 2015 5:48 pm

You can recognize and acknowledge someone's attractiveness even if you don't desire them in a physical way.

Kind of like I totally understand why a lot of women love Tom Hiddleston, but he doesn't do it for me. Love his personality but I have never lusted after him.

Dorothy83 · October 1, 2015 5:54 pm

Agree. I can see that Chris Pine is attractive, but I am not attracted to him.

Liberty · October 1, 2015 6:22 pm

Oh yes, but I think Sherlock actually becomes attracted to Irene, rather than just appreciating that Irene is an attractive woman. I still think the instant attraction is because of the cleverness of her disguise, rather than the body itself, but the body is part of the pretty package .

tonnaree · October 1, 2015 7:46 pm

Liberty, you are always such a pleasant person to dissagree with.

Last edited by tonnaree (October 1, 2015 7:46 pm)

Vhanja · October 1, 2015 7:48 pm

Liberty wrote:
Oh yes, but I think Sherlock actually becomes attracted to Irene, rather than just appreciating that Irene is an attractive woman. I still think the instant attraction is because of the cleverness of her disguise, rather than the body itself, but the body is part of the pretty package .

I think that is a good point. It's not first and foremost the body Sherlock is attracted to (if he is attracted to Irene). It's her mind and personality. And then physical attraction follows. I know that is exactly the way it happened for me with my hubby.

Solenn · October 1, 2015 8:16 pm

Remember when Mary shot Sherlock and this moment in his mind palace? Well, I've noticed neither Sherlock nor Irene apparead , whereas people like Anderson where present..That's strange , in fact John, Mrs Hudson & Lestrade didn't apparead even though they were the only three Sherlock acknowledged being his friends in TGG ..

Last edited by Solenn (October 1, 2015 8:17 pm)

SusiGo · October 1, 2015 8:19 pm

When Mycroft tells Sherlock to find something to calm him down, IMO he starts searching for John. We see him in the hallway of Roland Kerr College in ASiP, the building in which John shot the cabbie to save Sherlock's life. The problem is that instead of finding John he only finds Mary in her bridal gown shooting him again. Talk about symbolism …

RavenMorganLeigh · October 1, 2015 8:22 pm

SusiGo wrote:
When Mycroft tells Sherlock to find something to calm him down, IMO he starts searching for John. We see him in the hallway of Roland Kerr College in ASiP, the building in which John shot the cabbie to save Sherlock's life. The problem is that instead of finding John he only finds Mary in her bridal gown shooting him again. Talk about symbolism …

That's a major OW. She has effectively removed John from his MIND PALACE!!! He doesn't even have the Mean John that was making snide comments to him ( TEH) in his head anymore...

Vhanja · October 1, 2015 8:24 pm

I've always wondered about that. Johnlock or not, John is supposed to be one of the most important people in Sherlock's life. Yet he never appears in the mind palace scene in HLV.

SusiGo · October 1, 2015 8:25 pm

Yes, which Raven explained. He is looking for him in the right place, but Mary the killer bride is dominating his thoughts.

Solenn · October 1, 2015 8:29 pm

So does this mean that Mary is like a barrier that prevents him from seeing John ? The moment he falls and shouts when she shoot him in her bridal gown would be like the symbol of Sherlock's sorrow caused by John'sweeding ? Shelock 'd feel like he had been killed the day John became Marry's.. My god, how can people denied the Johnlock after that

Last edited by Solenn (October 1, 2015 8:30 pm)

SusiGo · October 1, 2015 8:31 pm

For me it is one of the strongest symbols in the show. Mary as a bride shooting him in the chest (the heart) while he is actively looking for John to help him save his life … well.

Solenn · October 1, 2015 8:32 pm

I agree . But it's so sad when you think about it. Sherlock is such a fragile guy nonetheless.

SusiGo · October 1, 2015 8:34 pm

Yes, very sad. (And one more reason that makes me believe that Mary is not really forgiven. But this is a topic for another thread.)