haha. I'd say the only time his fake 'cold exterior' works is in Mycroft's case... Sherlock pretends he doesn't care about him, and while I know that the reason the show gives us is the brotherly rivarly and him wanting to rebel against his overprotective sibling, I think in this case Mark could say that Sherlock does it to hide the fact that he'd be massively affected should Mycroft suffer harm.

Last edited by Dorothy83 (September 28, 2015 3:45 pm)

I agree with most here: it's kind of at odds with what we're told and shown about the character.     And yes, people use John against him anyway, yet he doesn't try to cut off contact with him.   And lots of people (including Mrs Hudson) seem to assume they're "in a relationship" anyway.   And that doesn't bother Sherlock at all - I can't remember him even denying it.   So he's basically in exactly the same situation he'd be in, in regards to risk, if he WAS "in a relationship" with John

Last edited by Liberty (September 28, 2015 6:01 pm)

Solenn wrote:

Well, talking about johnlock, I can only think about this :
" I will burn the heart of You"
Then .. John put in a fire .. 😌

Sorry maybe I'm misunderstanding your post - but John wasn't put into the fire by Moriarty so that's not necessarily a confirmation that Jim meant 'John' when he said that?

Last edited by Dorothy83 (September 29, 2015 11:24 am)

I think there's one important aspect we need to discuss, and this thread seem to be the perfect place to do do it:

Who is the show meant for? When we get down to it, who is the show meant for? The majority, who don't bother with the hiatus because they forget about the show, they forget the details we remember, and enjoy other tv stuff in the mean while, or the hard core fans who (over)analyze every scene between one season and the next?

As any other show, Sherlock is mainstream tv. They know that because of their schedule, they get one season every three year or so. They know that the majority of their fans will enjoy the show and then move on to something else in between. The fact remains, that the die hard fans who stick around between each season, who (over)analyze every scene and everything they do, whom belives in Johnlock becuase we understand all the metas, we are in the minority.

The majority hasn't read any metas. Any fanfics. Doesn't know what the word "Johnlock" even mean. So who do they cater do? Their tv time is limited, they have one season every third year.

Last edited by Vhanja (September 30, 2015 11:14 am)

I think they cater to all of them.

When my children were younger, I read all the Harry Potter books to them which I had read before myself (in the original). And I realised that Rowling's brilliance lies in catering for readers of all ages. For the younger it is an adventure tale with exciting fabulous creatures and villains and brave children, while the older readers also see the political and social aspects of the story (i.e. I always read some parts as a satire on the EU like the industrial norms for magic kettles, etc.). 

And I think it may be similar with Sherlock - we have a very large audience of casual watchers but the team knows only too well that there are others who analyse every single moment. The Vitruvian Man is a good example - many viewers do not observe this but they put it in there for a reason. Because they know that many hardcore fans will see it and draw their conclusions. And let us not forget that Mark and Steven are just like us, they have started as fanboys and still are. 

So when Sherlock and John finally become a "real" couple, some will be more surprised than others. And some will be offended. But I am sure that this is a risk they are willing to take. Steven and Mark do not strike me as writers who are afraid of how their audience may react as long as they are convinced of their stories. 

Last edited by SusiGo (September 30, 2015 7:33 am)

I just honestly don't understand how so many people are convinced Moffat and Gatiss do want to go the 'real couple' way. I don't mean to be criticising, at all, but - I agree that they are writers who do something if they're sure of it, I just don't get how we can be so convinced they are sure of wanting to do Johnlock? They both have denied it, and yes they do lie, but the way Gatiss has discussed his stance on the whole thing didn't seem like a lie to me.

Dorothy83 wrote:

I just honestly don't understand how so many people are convinced Moffat and Gatiss do want to go the 'real couple' way. I don't mean to be criticising, at all, but - I agree that they are writers who do something if they're sure of it, I just don't get how we can be so convinced they are sure of wanting to do Johnlock? They both have denied it, and yes they do lie, but the way Gatiss has discussed his stance on the whole thing didn't seem like a lie to me.

I also think it will never happen, unfortunetaly It's obvious that M&G took advantage of the popularity the Johnlock ship had with the fans after S1..
Therre is the relationship everyone around them thinks they have, and the one they really have. The latter gradually evolves during the seasons until S3 who is in my opinion the result of this evolution: we can almost feel the romantic feeling in subtext , particullary from Sherlock's side ( I guess it's up to your interpretation of their friendship ..) . But it's never clairy expressed, it's just subtexted.. and it will never be obvious, because it would not be Sherlockian at all, would it ?


However there 's something we can think about, or someone can explain to me Why do Moffat & Gatiss suggested the homosexuality in S1 , with all the "your date" or the diner at Angelo's ? Is it suggested in the book (I doubt it..) or is it implied by the fan of the book? ( because I saw the film with Robert Downey Junior and it was pretty gay lol).Or is it just their personnal point of vue of their relationship? Anyway , they would have stop impled it if the fans hadn't been supportive ^^ But why implied it at first if it doesn't mean anything in the show? Even if they planned their relationship to be more than friendly I don't think it will ever be obviously said or show. Interpretation is always up to the fan in order to no disappoint any fan .. What a damn cruel show .

Last edited by Solenn (September 30, 2015 10:50 am)

Could you please explain the "gay jokes"? Mrs Hudson's remark is not a joke, neither is Angelo's. IMO they are both honest inquiries, based on justified assumptions. And I would not assume that Moriarty and Magnussen are joking either. 

There is a good meta out there stating that the only true "gay joke" is made by John - the one about dancing behind closed curtains and Mrs Hudson spreading rumours. Which is quite a sad evasion and not a real joke. 

So I really do not see jokes out there. 

Mrshouse, we should remember that the people who are making these assumptions - Mrs Hudson, Angelo, Mycroft - have known Sherlock for quite some time resp. forever. So it probably is not just the flatsharing but him appearing with a man in a flat, in a restaurant, or at a crime scene at all that causes them to assume he and John are a couple. 

Which is quite logical since John is married, officially and to the outside world. But the funny thing is that the whole of TSoT and HLV is about Sherlock's feelings for John, despite the marriage and the non-existence of these so-called jokes.