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September 3, 2015 1:55 pm  #41


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

Yes, that could be true. There are some interesting metas out there built on this assumption. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

September 3, 2015 2:12 pm  #42


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

Something to do with Redbeard perhaps? That's an intriguing thought. 

 

September 4, 2015 3:00 pm  #43


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

There is still a lot of mystery around the childhood of the Holmes brothers. Why did Mycroft have to “be mother”, when Mummy and Daddy seem to be perfectly functional? Why did they never meet other children before both had come to the conclusion that Sherlock was an idiot? My head canon for now is that either “the other one” or Mummy was ill and Mycroft was left to fend for himself and Sherlock or maybe Sherlock was ill, which would also explain why he seems to be the favourite, and Mycroft had to take care of “the other one”. Note that “the other one” would have to be at least as smart as Mycroft for him to conclude that Sherlock was an idiot, or much younger than them so they had already had their meeting with other children.


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We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
 

September 5, 2015 5:00 pm  #44


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

Having Benedict's parents cast as normal, kind and loving parents, though adorable-- made the characterizations of Sherlock and Mycroft make much less sense... it leaves one with the sense that the boys are just odd, period. No particular reason for that, except their genius. I think Nakahara brought this up before on another thread-- in this series, genius is often shown as problematic at best, downright evil at worst. A to B to C; Mycroft's the smartest one, therefore he's the most "evil" one-- or at least, the most morally flexible with potential to become an evil-mastermind. So, Mycroft may well become his brother's worst nemesis.
Sigh. 

 

September 5, 2015 5:40 pm  #45


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

I have to disagree.  I don't think that characterization makes less sense.  I think it just goes to show that you can be exceptional, even if on the surface the people you grew up with weren't.  Mycroft and Sherlock are exceptional and different, but their parents treat them just like any other good parent.
I also don't think that the series wants to say that genius is "problematic at best." We've met different characters who we'd say are brilliant: Sherlock, Myrcoft, Irene, Magnussen, even Bill show high intelligence and powers of observation.  A detective, government worker, dominatrix, drug addict.  While they've all caused their own problems, just because they've all done some questionable things at some point, I don't think that the conclusion we get from that is that intelligence is problematic, and I don't think any of them are evil with the exception of Magnussen.  
I think this just means that in order to commit complicated crimes or to be able to solve them requires a person to be intelligent and observent.  But it is not their intelligence alone that is the problem.



Clueing for looks.
 

September 5, 2015 5:55 pm  #46


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

Yitzock wrote:

I have to disagree.  I don't think that characterization makes less sense.  I think it just goes to show that you can be exceptional, even if on the surface the people you grew up with weren't.  Mycroft and Sherlock are exceptional and different, but their parents treat them just like any other good parent.
I also don't think that the series wants to say that genius is "problematic at best." We've met different characters who we'd say are brilliant: Sherlock, Myrcoft, Irene, Magnussen, even Bill show high intelligence and powers of observation.  A detective, government worker, dominatrix, drug addict.  While they've all caused their own problems, just because they've all done some questionable things at some point, I don't think that the conclusion we get from that is that intelligence is problematic, and I don't think any of them are evil with the exception of Magnussen.  
I think this just means that in order to commit complicated crimes or to be able to solve them requires a person to be intelligent and observent.  But it is not their intelligence alone that is the problem.

So, you don't think that all the people you just listed-- geniuses -- with some serious issues on the show-- don't make a case that genius is inherently synonomous with --- a predilection towards Not Normal behavior, or even criminality? Because the "normal" people don't tend to be problematic or criminals-- they are the ones always having to "put up with"  or "fix" the genuises. 

 

September 5, 2015 6:26 pm  #47


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

No, I think it just shows that in order to be a successful criminal, you have to be intelligent.  Either that, or you have to be intelligent enough to figure out how a criminal would plans things so that you can solve crimes and find who committed them.  Perhaps even smarter.  Stupid criminals get caught faster, but even the very intelligent ones are caught in the end.  They get outwitted.
And don't forget how even the perhaps not "genius" people, but still intelligent, do have problems.  John is not unintelligent, but he has problems, too, which can mirror Sherlock's.  We've talked about how both he and Sherlock can be dysfunctional regardig emotions before. 
And to be honest, I don't think any geniuses get "fixed" per se.  Maybe Sherlock has started to consider emotions and other people differently than before, but I wouldn't say he's "fixed" from anything, if that term really even applies.  Moriarty stays the way he is, and so does Mycroft.  Magnussen doesn't back down, even if he does get killed in the end, but he is the most extreme of all of them.  I wouldn't say Irene is "fixed" either.  She was also not the worst of the criminals and yet she was very intelligent both in observation and in working with people.  She doesn't change from that.  And I don't think others "put up with her" either.  In fact, many people willingly spend time with her.  They pay her for it.  She's not someone who needs to be fixed or put up with, she knows how to please people and I think she likes what she does.  She feels no shame for her line of work.

And even if that is not enough, the fact that so many brilliant people commit crimes is more of an indication of how difficult it is for geniuses to stay sane in a world where many people don't undertand them.  The world they exist in is inadequate without crime in many cases.  Without it, there's not much mental stimulation a lot of the time.  It's mundane.

Or: this show is about Sherlock Holmes and other brilliant people.  Sherlock is brilliant, so he encounters brilliant people.  He's a detective, so those people are criminals.

Last edited by Yitzock (September 5, 2015 6:27 pm)



Clueing for looks.
 

September 5, 2015 6:38 pm  #48


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

There aren't really that many normal people in the show at all. Mrs Hudson was an exotic dancer married to a kartell owner, while having marihuana issues. John is a trauma surgeon with a danger kink and supressed emotional issues. 

The only "normal" people here are Lestrade and Molly, really. And even Molly learns to evolve quite a lot. 


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September 5, 2015 9:42 pm  #49


Re: Sherlock and Empathy


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

September 6, 2015 7:57 am  #50


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

Vhanja wrote:

The only "normal" people here are Lestrade and Molly, really. And even Molly learns to evolve quite a lot. 

And Molly chooses to spend her life with dead people and self-proclaimed sociopaths.
 


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We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
 

September 9, 2015 4:04 am  #51


Re: Sherlock and Empathy

Yep-- that's about the size of it. 

 

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