BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Reading challenge: Unexpected Tags

Kittyhawk · August 7, 2015 12:25 pm

Lilythiell wrote:
Right. I've finished reading A Study In Winning.
I don't like sports, mostly because I don't understand what the fuss is all about. But by God wasn't I gripped by this story...

I've finished A Study in Winning as well, but mainly because I finish everything that's not absolutely positively awful. And because I wanted to know who'd win... But I have to say that after having some fun looking up the basics of tennis rules and scoring I was reminded of why I haven't watched a single tennis game in my life! (I have nothing against sports in general, but some kinds make more sense than others...) There's nothinig wrong with the writing of the story, though - if you don't mind reading quite a lot of tennis commentary ;) My favourite moment was

when John slammed the ball into Moriarty's stomach and told him Sherlock was back with him - and how the commentators misinterpreted the scene.

The big advantage of my complete lack of tennis knowledge was that I wouldn't have noticed any technical inaccuracies (if there were any). Whereas I stopped reading Musgrave Blaze (on fanfiction.net, by Sevenpercent) when it became clear that the author doesn't know the first thing about horses and didn't do her research. Now I'm curious how far I'll get with Eyes Up, Heels Down (on AO3).

By the way, I gave Uphill a short try (before the tennis story as at least I've stood on skis a few times and seen a few races) but for some reason didn't get into the story at all.

Lilythiell · August 7, 2015 1:47 pm

Haha, yes, that whole situation was really funny.
The fact of not knowing the first thing about tennis was indeed a huge advantage.
The story, as you said, was well written. Even the commentaries were gripping! The author managed to render written commentaries as gripping as if the action was taking place in front of us, and that's really, really great.
I'll have a try at Eyes Up, Heels Down. I've not actively looked for this kind of AU, but I don't see why I shouldn't read this one? I'm sure it'll be interesting.
I have to admit that I had thought at first it was another one on dancing!lock, but I'm always happy to try new AUs.

Kittyhawk · August 8, 2015 11:13 am

Lilythiell wrote:
.... The author managed to render written commentaries as gripping as if the action was taking place in front of us, and that's really, really great....

Actually, that's the thing that didn't surprise me at all, because I have noticed a long time ago that listening to a football game on the radio can actually be more interesting (for me, at least) than watching it on the telly. Because good commentators can transmit their excitement to the audience. And they'll see and report things that I (not exactly a football fan) wouldn't even notice...

Lilythiell wrote:
I'll have a try at Eyes Up, Heels Down. I've not actively looked for this kind of AU, but I don't see why I shouldn't read this one? I'm sure it'll be interesting....

The author says in the intro that she rides in the U.S. and I believe her. The equestrian details are not completely off (grooming, riding, tack, horse-rider relationship etc.), but not realistic for a European barn either (I don't know of a single top-level sports rider who either owns a Frisian (what for?), or does dressage, show jumping and three-day eventing at the same time and I'd be willing to bet that there's not a single Quarter Horse in European Eventing...)

In other words, have fun reading the story, but don't believe it will make you an expert in equestrian sports. As for me, having just come upon "cupid-bow lips", I've remembered that I've seen both better Sherlock stories and better, more realistic horse stories (without Sherlock).

beautifulfiction · September 9, 2015 5:16 pm

Hi Ukaunz,

I just wanted to thank you for your comments on Gilded Cage, including your critique of me overusing he ran his tongue over his teeth. I hadn't even noticed! I did a quick check for the phrase with both ran and running, and edited it down to a more respectable number. I would probably never have noticed without your help, so thank you <3
B xxx
P.s. Tried to do this by private message, byut I only just registered - sorry for butting in on your post!

ukaunz · September 9, 2015 9:16 pm

Hi beautifulfiction, welcome to the forum and thanks for your message I have actually been kicking myself a bit since I posted that critique as I'm fairly new to fandom and hadn't really thought about the etiquette of making comments like those on someone's work here. I hope I didn't come across as too negative or picky, as really appreciate the work you and other writers put into their fics and don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!

Last edited by ukaunz (September 9, 2015 9:41 pm)

Yitzock · September 9, 2015 9:43 pm

This just reminded me that I finished reading The Gilded Cage on the weekend (I bet you all forgot that I had accepted that challenge since it was a couple months ago. I was distracted with family stuff and also a book). Gosh, it was LONG. On my Kindle, it is the longest item. Even Gone with the Wind is shown as shorter than this fic on my Kindle. Wow!
-------------------------
Like some other people have already said, I had always avoided omegaverse stuff, earlier because I didn't know what it was and later because I looked up what it was and it put me off. So I thought I'd accept this challenge. Fortunately for me, the suggested story was a gem, both as omegaverse and as Sherlock fanfiction in general, I think. I almost bailed, but then by chapter 1 or 2's end, I was hooked.
The worldbuilding in this was good, and I think it had some reflections of our world. I'm going to write my next part in spoilers in case there's someone who hasn't read it yet, though I'm not sure how much it will spoil.

The treating of Omegas as property reflects to me a time when women were treated as chattel, but that's not where I really saw how the world in this fanfiction mirrors our own.
Firstly, there's the equating of gender with something biological that we are born with. I've come to understand gender as something that is not totally connected with systems or parts of the body, and so it took a little getting used to seeing Omega or Alpha referred to sometimes as genders. Because by my definition they're not genders. Which leads to why I think that this can, at least for me, be connected to our world.
People still so often connect physical attributes or body parts to gender. I don't need to explain this. We know what parts we see in people and generally go "That's a man" or "That's a woman" even if we're wrong. Perhaps with the Alpha and Omega genders it's not quite so immediate, and we do see that there male and female sexes in addition to Alpha and Omega, and there's still assumptions made based on those attributes if a person is known to have them. But we know that biology isn't really destiny, not totally, even though it is always there in some way that we have to deal with, as Sherlock and John both know. We could consider Sherlock's breaking of the Omega mould of submissiveness, considering the terminology used in this world, a breaking away from gender roles and gender sterotypes.
Now, of course we don't treat people like property anymore (generally), certainly not particular genders. But there is still a sense of how people are discriminated against for those reasons, and like Omegas women and trans people are still treated as "less than."
I found the angle of Omegas not having legal agency mirroring history, women fighting for a recognized right to vote and to be considered "persons."
Also, when Sherlock and John are watching television as Omegas are given legal agency, it reminded me not only of that fight that women made so many years ago, but also of more recent events where laws have begun to protect other groups more specifically, but that's more of an afterhtought than any of my other analyses.
And of course there's the reproductive rights, consent and sexual abuse aspect, which I realize can be difficult for some people to read about so while I'm not going to get into gory details, you can stop reading my spoiler section now if it really really bothers you.
While it's gotten better over time and seems to still be getting better, there is still some ideas that women's consent is not valid and that men cannot control themselves, which is mirrored in Omegas and Alphas. Omegas' consent is not considered in sexual acts, much like how women's consent is not always respected. There is also the notion in Gilded Cage's society that Alphas cannot control themselves when there's an Omega in heat present. This is kind of like the notion that is put in the heads of so many that men are sex-crazed and cannot control themselves, which is part of the problem of sexual assault and consent. In the story John doesn't want to believe it's true, even though it worries him. I don't know if real-life men worry about whether they can control themselves (I'm not one and I've never asked one), but he does have self-control in the end, which of course men do have. Which is why it's ridiculous to blame women for "tempting" men, but I don't want to get into that argument. I just want to point out that this fic points those out in using a world that is a bit different from our own but at the same time not that different at all.
If we can consider Omegaverse science fiction (I think that's a fairly accurate descriptor, at least of its base concept), then it is doing what science fiction does very well, which is pointing out aspects and problems of our world through its own world that is a bit different.

I think the social commentary, all intentional or not, is great. I unfortunately do not know (and I have my doubts) that all Omegaverse fiction is like this, so in that way I'm not sure I'll read much more fics like that, if any, but I did appreciate it very much in this fic.
The concept of Alpha/Beta/Omega became very comfortable to me as I read the story. Maybe it was because of the way it was handled in this story. But I'm not so put off by it anymore. However, I'm still not sure whether it was created by some biology student for fun or whether it was by someone more perverse. From what I've read it's a bit hard to trace the origins of clearly, so I guess we'll never know for sure, but it sure is a curious creation if I can say that.
To wrap up I will actually talk about the story and not just the themes or social context. Well-written. Some use of some good words, although I think there were some that were repeated quite frequently. I think there might have been more, but "tenuous" comes to mind as a word that while it did make sense, I found it a little tiresome by the end. But that's a very very minor problem. I did notice the "ran his tongue over his teeth" thing, but more in the later chapters than in earlier ones for some reason.
Now, as some people on this forum already know I'm not a huge Johnocker. However, in cases such as this I will read Johnlock because a story is good. The mystery in this was well-done, unpredictable and had some quite exciting moments, so that alone was worth the read. And how aspects of the mystery tied into the characters was well-done. There were some bits that connected that I really wasn't expecting, which was a pleasnt surprise. The romance here was pretty well writte, sometimes poignant. Although one of my most moving moments of their relationship is "Just This" (possibly partly because it's before things get really sexual) and the final line of the story which I won't give away.
There were some parts where I did disengage, though, but then again, sex is pretty much always where I disengage with a story even if I've been engaged the rest of the time. I think that's more to do with me than the writer, so it's not really the writer's fault I would say.
Sort of connected to that (this is actually a spoiler of the story),

I found Sherlock's animalistic sexual behaviour when John first comes to see him in the house when he's in heat kind of disturbing. It was a very uncomfortable part for me, and it didn't fit with Sherlock's character to me at all. But I think that's a minor point in the grand scheme of things since it was a relatively short moment. I also would have preferred if less of the epilogue was devoted to sex. I liked the last line, but because of the fact that sex detaches me from the story, it offset a bit of the otherwise poignant ending for me. Although I think I'm in the minority here, and that's a personal thing.

So if anybody's still reading this, I did enjoy The Gilded Cage quite a bit, and I'm glad I read it and accepted the challenge. It was well-done, interesting, exciting, moving at parts, something that I did not find disgusting like I had previously perceived Omegaverse. I now know that there is at least one exception to it all being about sex.

Although I REALLY don't want to think about childbearing for a male Omega. That still makes me uncomfortable and I don't know whether I'll ever be able to read about that in some fic down the road. That's only an aside because while it never happens in Gilded Cage, it certainly is something that can happen.

So thank you for the recomendation. I enjoyed myself.

Last edited by Yitzock (September 9, 2015 9:50 pm)

ukaunz · September 10, 2015 12:05 am

A really interesting review, Yitzock, I'm glad you enjoyed the challenge too. I agree that one of the best things about this fic is the social commentary. It's also such a beautiful love story - and I never used to be interested in reading romance/love stories (before I discovered Johnlock). Those poignant moments you mentioned made me sigh

Yitzock · September 10, 2015 12:10 am

Yes, I would agree that I don't really read romance stories outside of fanfiction. The only romance I usually read in books is along with some other story, although I supposed even Gilded Cage counts in that way, as well as other fanfiction.
I'm glad you found my review interesting. Some of it I thought of when I first started reading so I had to remember everything I had thought of before because I thought there were a lot of aspects of it to think about. One night in the summer when I was having trouble sleeping I kept thinking about that stuff.

Vhanja · September 20, 2015 7:57 pm

Since several people in this thread has read Collared, I found this "fix-it" sequel fix written by a different author. It's 11 chapters, but the chapters are short. The author said Collared left her feeling uneasy and uncomfortable, especially the ending, so she wrote this story as "therapy".

However, to be perfectly honest, I found this fic to be more disturbing and uncomfortable than Collared. I also felt it was a bit rushed, story-wise. So I don't put it here as a personal recommandation, but I just wanted to share that it exists and people can make up their own minds about the fic if they decide to read it:

John Uncollared

Last edited by Vhanja (September 20, 2015 7:58 pm)

Kittyhawk · September 24, 2015 1:49 pm

Vhanja wrote:
....

However, to be perfectly honest, I found this fic to be more disturbing and uncomfortable than Collared. I also felt it was a bit rushed, story-wise. ...

I agree. Also, for me the sequel didn't really make sense (starting with the fact that the original story was quite insistent that the "collar" can't be removed).

Vhanja · October 21, 2015 8:14 pm

I'm reading a fic now that I find to be quite awesome, but I have been so unsure whether or not I should recommend it or not, because I know this isn't everybody's cup of tea. In fact, it might be for a very small minority on this board, I don't know. However, I reckon it would be ok to post it here since this is already a thread for tags that people might find uncomfortable.

Deflowered - Director's Cut by Lorelei_Lee
Summary: =15.12pxIt should have been strictly business. Being a Mafia boss with a sadistic sexual streak, John had long since realised that his playthings were in it for the money only. Being a masochistic rent boy, Sherlock seemed too good to be true. Little did they know…

Ok, so let me get to the warnings first, because this is important. Read the tags and heed them. This is not for everyone. First of all. the setting itself is AU, and both Sherlock and John I would say are rather OOC (which they have to be, considering the setting).

John is a sadistic mob boss with temper issues. Sherlock is a masochistic rentboy with his own issues due to his past. It sounds like bad porn, and while reading the first chapters it might seem as porn is all it is. And even though I freely admit there is a LOT of sex in this fic (and not of the vanilla kind), this fic develops into far, far more than you'd think it would from the start.

What I find the most interesting about this fic, is the originality of the dynamic. In all versions of Sherlock Holmes, including the fanfics, Sherlock is the leading man and John the loyal follower. In this fic, John is the leading man and Sherlock the loyal follower. It's not something I'd like to see in canon, but it makes for a very, very interesting and original read, I think.

This fic read to me a bit like Godfather or other mafia movies. It's not pretty, it's sometimes brutal, and the "leading man" (in this case: John) can be cruel and violent. But the story is remarkably good.

The story is still WIP, but she updates every Monday. I've subbed for a month or so now, and she does update regularly every Monday.

If you can get through the tags and the AU/OOC, the story and the characterizations are incredibly interesting and original.

SusiGo · October 21, 2015 8:37 pm

Vhanja, could you please add an adult warning to your thread title? Thank you.

Harriet · October 22, 2015 9:24 am

Thanks, Susi, for fixing that now.

Last edited by Harriet (October 22, 2015 9:24 am)

Vhanja · October 22, 2015 10:40 am

Thanks for having it fixed.

Whisky · October 23, 2015 12:07 am

I had a try at Deflowered. I'm quite unsure what to think about it. It's certainly interesting, especially the OOC. I don't find it disturbing, although the warnings have their right. Didn't know it's possible to be intrigued and bored by a story at the same time - that is surely a first. I cannot explain this... the dynamics are interesting, yet I find it repititive sometimes... too much sex? (I admit, I tried skipping some sex scenes. They're at it all the time! The problem is, the whole relationship happens within these scenes, so I had to come back to them.) It's well written. I like it, and yet it's a WIP that won't break my heart in case it's not updated. Confused me a bit.
As for the reading challenge: I usually avoid stories with these warnings. That's why I tried. I'd say I will still avoid them in the future. Mainly because I can only bear reading such stuff if the fic is written well and very carefully balanced, so I don't have to worry while reading but can "trust" the storytelling. I cannot stomach stories that play very heavy games with the reader's mind. With this story, surprising enough, this wasn't the case even though the content is rough in a way. I think it's good storytelling what's happening here. I would recommend it, I think.

Last edited by Whisky (October 23, 2015 12:24 am)

nakahara · October 23, 2015 9:12 am

This made me sad and angry at the same time today:

http://sherlockian-1881.tumblr.com/post/131717266231/guilded-cage-was-a-kink-fest-pat-on-the-back

Beautifulfiction, the author that was featured even here in this thread, got attacked for her wonderful work "Gilded Cage" (one of the best Johnlock stories ever) by some stupid anon.

Vhanja · October 23, 2015 9:21 am

Whisky wrote:
I had a try at Deflowered. I'm quite unsure what to think about it. It's certainly interesting, especially the OOC. I don't find it disturbing, although the warnings have their right. Didn't know it's possible to be intrigued and bored by a story at the same time - that is surely a first. I cannot explain this... the dynamics are interesting, yet I find it repititive sometimes... too much sex? (I admit, I tried skipping some sex scenes. They're at it all the time! The problem is, the whole relationship happens within these scenes, so I had to come back to them.) It's well written. I like it, and yet it's a WIP that won't break my heart in case it's not updated. Confused me a bit.
As for the reading challenge: I usually avoid stories with these warnings. That's why I tried. I'd say I will still avoid them in the future. Mainly because I can only bear reading such stuff if the fic is written well and very carefully balanced, so I don't have to worry while reading but can "trust" the storytelling. I cannot stomach stories that play very heavy games with the reader's mind. With this story, surprising enough, this wasn't the case even though the content is rough in a way. I think it's good storytelling what's happening here. I would recommend it, I think.

Cool that you gave it a go! How far did you get into the story? Yeah, there is a lot of sex. It's almost 50% porn and 50% story at times. Yet I am very intrigued by the originality of the story and the world-building, never read anything like it. And it gets more story-heavy and less about sex (althought that is always featured heavily) as the story progresses.

I am quite sure the story will be completed. Only nine chapters to go, and she updates regularly every Monday.

nakahara: There are always people like that, unfortunately. I understand that stories like these aren't for everyone, but then I think one should just ignore it and move on. Not write crap to the authors. That's just low. It says more about them, in my opinion.

Last edited by Vhanja (October 23, 2015 10:18 am)

Yitzock · October 23, 2015 2:09 pm

nakahara wrote:
This made me sad and angry at the same time today:

http://sherlockian-1881.tumblr.com/post/131717266231/guilded-cage-was-a-kink-fest-pat-on-the-back

Beautifulfiction, the author that was featured even here in this thread, got attacked for her wonderful work "Gilded Cage" (one of the best Johnlock stories ever) by some stupid anon.

That is unfortunate that someone said that and felt the need to say it directly to the author of the fic. I'm glad there were so many responses. But I don't even understand how that anon could think that. I don't know how you could think that Gilded Cage is what that anon claimed. Did they even read anything other than the tags?

ukaunz · November 23, 2015 9:07 pm

So, I didn't even know fannish RPF/RPS was a thing before I discovered fandom, but when I found out what it was I thought I would avoid it. I mean, treating actors as characters in (particularly explicit) fanfiction just seems wrong*. I gather it's still quite a taboo in fandom. However I've been listening to all the back-episodes of Three Patch Podcast, and the discussions about breaking the fourth wall (episode 25: The Wall Had It Coming) convinced me to give some of their RPF recs a try. Well, I'm not convinced that writing/reading RPF is generally a good thing, but this fic was pretty amazing:

Method Act[/url] (136749 words) by [url=http://archiveofourown.org/users/splix]splix
Chapters: 20/20 Fandom: Sherlock (TV), Real Person Fiction, Actor RPF
Rating: Explicit Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Relationships: Sherlock Holmes/John Watson, Benedict Cumberbatch/Tom Hiddleston, Sherlock Holmes/Mark Gatiss, Benedict Cumberbatch/John Watson, Benedict Cumberbatch/Molly Hooper, Sherlock Holmes/Louise Brealey, Sherlock Holmes/Tom Hiddleston, Benedict Cumberbatch/Mycroft Holmes
Characters: Sherlock Holmes, John Watson, Molly Hooper, Mycroft Holmes, Benedict Cumberbatch, Martin Freeman, Louise Brealey, Mark Gatiss, Tom Hiddleston, Irene Adler
Additional Tags: Bodyswap, Pseudoscience, Magic, Alternate Universe, Light BDSM, Case Fic, Peril, Non-Consensual Bondage, Non-Sexual Bondage, RPF, Implied Relationships, Stalking, Kidnapping, Implied/Referenced Incest
Summary: Something very strange keeps happening at 7:35 PM.

I was completely sucked in to this fic by the plot, because I seem to love timey wimey alternate reality stories. Admittedly there were quite a few scenes that made me uncomfortable to read them, especially the slash scenes between real people, and the ones relating to that other squicky tag "incest". But because it was such a clever plot, and so well-written with brilliant dialogue and characterisation, I got past my initial qualms and found myself so riveted to the story that I read it all in one long sitting. I'm still slightly ashamed that I was able to brush away my ethical objections to RPF/RPS so easily. I totally understand if other people have stronger morals than I do, and refuse to read this on principle!

* I will admit that I'm currently trying to write a fanfic (which I may never finish) that has a version of BC, but with his name changed... he's a fictional/real person hybrid character really, with some recognisable BC characteristics. I'm still unsure how many details I can get away with before it crosses the line into RPF. But my story is definitely not slash, very G-rated and innocent.

Last edited by ukaunz (November 23, 2015 9:23 pm)

Vhanja · December 28, 2015 2:51 pm

Whisky wrote:
It's well written. I like it, and yet it's a WIP that won't break my heart in case it's not updated. Confused me a bit.

Not sure what side of the fence you ended up on (boring/interesting), but this story is now completed. I have to admit, I absolutely love it. One of the most original Johnlocks I've read.

ukaunz: For me personally, reading a story shipping the actors is crossing a line. However, I don't judge those who write it or read it - I wrote that stuff myself before internet and before I even knew a term as "fanfic" existed.

Last edited by Vhanja (December 28, 2015 2:55 pm)