SusiGo wrote:

Yes, I agree, Raven. 
And I find it quite interesting that Sherlock is jealous of Sholto, another man, and apparently not of Mary. He is accustomed to John being with women but talking endlessly about another man - a man with qualities similar to his own, according to Mary - seems to be much worse for him. What may we conclude from that? 

Hmmmm... what MAY we conclude from that... oh... OH!!!! 

I remember John-of-the-amazing-sense-of-propriety, shouting at Sherlock that he was at the Chinese Theatre for the purpose of "Getting off with Sarah", when she walked up behind him. 

SPEAKING OF WHICH-- okay, does anyone else remember that when John stayed over at Sarah's house ( to get away from Sherlock) that he kind of tried to guilt/puppy dog eye her into sleeping with him? I mean, really John????? Really??? 

I think she knew he had no intention of settling down. From her perspective, he probably seemed rather immature for his age-- falling asleep at work, getting involved in dust-ups on a date, having to sleep at hers because of the flatmate....

If they'd actually started a relationship-- he probably would have moved in with her. Look how quickly he moved in with Mary. I adore John, but he's not the most self-sufficient character on the planet....

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (July 23, 2015 2:22 am)

I think Sherlock might be part of the reason John's relationships didn't work out, but at the end of the day it was John who always chose Sherlock first. And that was what ended his relationships (at least the one with Jeanette). 

Of course, Sherlock's rudeness didn't help, but if John had been more invested in the relationships than with being Sherlock's whatever-it-is-they-are, then I don't think that alone would have been a deciding factor for the women he dated.

To me, it seems clear that none of his relationships worked because John always prioritized Sherlock over everything else. It took Sherlock being absent ("dead") for John to be able to get into a serious relationship.

Although when Sherlock returned, John is still thinking about him while being in bed with his newly-wed wife. So there is that.

So do I. Which reminds me of the Canon classic: 

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

There are some things that can only be explained if we assume that there is something between those two other than a close friendship. And John in bed is a very good example: waking up crying in ASiP (before Sherlock), lying awake and probably thinking of Sherlock in TEH and dreaming of Sherlock in HLV. Well. 

@ Swanpride: In contrast to the other dull and borin girlfriends Sherlock really likes Mary! That's different to John's ex ...

I think Sherlock's reaction to Sholto is quite different from anything he says or does about John's girlfriends. 

As for him losing John to Mary - not everyone gets into a jealous rage. There are people who quietly leave a wedding, return to consuming drugs, and put away the chair of the person they think they have lost. 

@ Vhanja, yes, I do think John prioritises Sherlock over dating.   Theirs is not an ordinary friendship (although I don't think it's completely unheard of to prioritise an established friendship over a date), and I think John is kind of bewitched by Sherlock - an evening fighting crime with Sherlock is always going to offer something that a date just can't.  He's also very supportive of Sherlock and cares deeply for him, so will put him first naturally (as we see in ASIB).  He's clearly very nterested in dating women, but I think he's happy enough to leave serious relationships to one side in S1 and S2.  I don't get a sense of yearning for it. 

Mary is different, partly because of who she is (I suspect that we're meant to believe that John did sense something rather unusual and exciting about her, even though I always think the comments about her choosing her are unfair), but also because she appears when Sherlock isn't on the scene - there's a huge gap in John's life, and nobody to put first.  Then afterwards, as I mentioned, it's noticeable that she isn't jealous of Sherlock and is happy for John to spend time with him. 

@Kornmuhme, I agree I don't think I see full on jealousy from Sherlock over the S1/S2 girlfriends - it's more a case of Sherlock wanting to be the centre of John's attention, and also his superior attitude to that sort of business - there's a feeling of "why waste your time with that sort of thing, when we could be doing something more interesting together".   However, it's interesting - Sherlock is at his most scathing in ASIB when he himself is being confronted with unexpected feelings.  The Christmas scene is curious, because we later find out that Sherlock is caught off guard by feelings of his own (for Irene - however you interpret what's going on between them), and I think his interactions with Jeanette and Molly have to be viewed in the light of that.   It's very much all about him, rather than about John, I think. 

Anyway, Sherlock's feelings for Irene are kind of resolved within that episode and the phone is put away.   That's not an issue in S3, so what's going on there is something different.   Sherlock is mainly dealing with his relationship with John (and by extension, Mary) throughout S3, I think. 

Something else to consider-- looking at this situation from a guy's point of view-- well, think of guys in a band that they're really, really dedicated to. (And, I get this from experience, I'm a the only woman in a Gothic/Industrial band I've been playing in for the last 15 years) Guys will NOT give up their band for a woman they are not real serious about, and what's more-- if the woman tries to put limits on their band involvement-- that's going to cause the guy to break up with them. So, a lot of women who date guys in bands end up calling themselves "band widows". Bands eat up a LOT of your time with practices several nights a week, gigs that keep you out till 2-3AM in the morning, you hob-nob with lots of people in bars  (the office) and some of those folks are very attractive women, you go on tour and are gone for weeks-- sometimes months at a time-- and there's all those band meetings, and working on your craft alone--etc, etc, ....

That's kind of what Sherlock's and John's relationship is like at its most platonic. Add to that the life-and-death element, and the fact that they really do care deeply for one another-- well, that's a lot for a woman to compete with.  And John's "moving on" reminds me of the person who decides to give up art or music, and "gow up" and "get a real job" and live according to the expectations of "normal people". Which he is most assuredly-- not. 

So, jealousy-- maybe it's more of of a sense of loss-- Sherlock's lost his partner! And it's very hard to find someone you can groove with. :-)

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (July 23, 2015 8:06 pm)

I think that's a very good take on it.   I like the "band" analogy, because their work is a not just a job.  They have a special connection. 

Vhanja wrote:

Yeah, John didn't just lose a friend. He lost a way of living.

Totally. And, maybe his sense of identity, as well..