BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Go on then...what are your theories?

tobeornot221b · August 1, 2012 5:11 pm

Leaving behind his phone, his "physical" note to John can also been seen as a reference to ACD's The Adventure of the Empty House:

"No, Watson, I never was in it. My note to you was absolutely genuine. I had little doubt that I had come to the end of my career when I perceived the somewhat sinister figure of the late Professor Moriarty standing upon the narrow pathway which led to safety. I read an inexorable purpose in his grey eyes. I exchanged some remarks with him, therefore, and obtained his courteous permission to write the short note which you afterwards received. I left it with my cigarette-box and my stick and I walked along the pathway, Moriarty still at my heels."

Last edited by tobeornot221b (August 1, 2012 5:12 pm)

VivaCohen · August 1, 2012 7:14 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:
Leaving behind his phone, his "physical" note to John can also been seen as a reference to ACD's The Adventure of the Empty House:

"No, Watson, I never was in it. My note to you was absolutely genuine. I had little doubt that I had come to the end of my career when I perceived the somewhat sinister figure of the late Professor Moriarty standing upon the narrow pathway which led to safety. I read an inexorable purpose in his grey eyes. I exchanged some remarks with him, therefore, and obtained his courteous permission to write the short note which you afterwards received. I left it with my cigarette-box and my stick and I walked along the pathway, Moriarty still at my heels."

Ooohhh, I like that idea.

KeepersPrice · August 1, 2012 9:11 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
And there again comes my favourite theory about Sherlock doing something to his head and nose on the roof right after Moriarty killed himself. (Somewhere in the www, can't find it back right now.)
As the camera goes round and round him, we think he's nearly going mad in that scene, but the truth can be that he's putting something to his head to prepare the "injured look" on the pavement later on. Blood capsules/cachets?
Sounds a bit strange, though...... GOD, I have to watch all this AGAIN!

Hey Mattlock, I just came from watching Frankenstein and I noticed that Ben tends to favor an acting gesture when the character he's playing is under extreme emotional stress. He presses the back of his hand against his mouth or wipes the back of his hand across his mouth giving a sense of desperation. I think we see that gesture in the scene you are mentioning - camera going round, Sherlock turning every which way in desperation, hand pressed to his mouth or face. Since Ben uses this gesture in his acting style I'm tending to doubt it has anything to do with Sherlock prepping himself with fake blood capsules. My take on it anyway.

Mattlocked · August 1, 2012 9:18 pm

Thanks KP, that is interesting!! (Hope I can watch it myself some day...)

KeepersPrice · August 1, 2012 9:44 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
Thanks KP, that is interesting!! (Hope I can watch it myself some day...)

But I was just thinking, you never know what Sherlock might have hidden in those dark curls of his before heading to the roof. He could have prepped beforehand. He always manages to be be ten chess moves ahead of everyone else, doesn't he? But I still think it was the people on the ground around him who spread the blood. My theory is the trick was completely set up and all the assistants were in place and knew their exact roles once he took the fall.

Lupin · August 1, 2012 9:48 pm

I agree with the idea that Sherlock had everything prepped and had assistants to make the fall a convincing success. I think people read a little too bit into his movements and words, though, when trying to figure out what happened though.

Mattlocked · August 1, 2012 9:52 pm

That's right - but on the other hand: Why should he "freak out" like that when Jim killed himself?
In that blog it was explained that just the camera "freaked out" to lead us on a wrong track and so you couldn't see his face in that scene.

s.he · August 1, 2012 9:52 pm

I wonder why it is so hard to believe, that Sherlock has recorded their conversation. I'm not certain, whether he has recorded the whole conversation until the end of Moriarty, but for the first part it's obviously. He never intended disappearing and being the bad guy forever. When he's back, he potentially needs evidence for Moriartys crimes and possibly for his faked identity, too. It would be much more effort for Sherlock demonstrating his own innocence other ways. The modern equivalent to the paper-note in the original story is the phone call to John, not leaving the whole equipment. I assume, he left it to Mycroft (definitely not to Molly), and at this opportunity Mycroft could have cleaned up the dead Moriartys body.

Lupin · August 1, 2012 10:00 pm

@Mattlocked: I believe he knew at least one of them was going to die on the roof and even planned to kill Moriarty if need be. I think the suicide came as a shock to him, not his death. Moriarty's death was always a part of the plan.

@s.he: I thought he was recording the conversation when I first watched the episode, yet Holmes doesn't care what the media or others think of him. The police would have a hard time linking him to Moriarty's crimes, especially with Richard Brook's disappearance. I would be interested if anyone analyzed the footprints from the boarding school to see if the shoe size and gate would fit someone of Sherlock's stature.

I believe he will clear his name by rounding up the rest of Moriarty's empire with Mycroft and the MOD in secret. Once that is complete, with the end being the arrest of Moran, then all the evidence of Moriarty will be brought to light.

Last edited by Lupin (August 1, 2012 10:01 pm)

Mattlocked · August 1, 2012 10:52 pm

Just watched the scene again and, KeepersPrice and Lupin, you are right. I don't see him doing something we don't see. I mean, it's obviously nonsense. He's simply freaking out. Or rearranging his mind palace.
That's all I saw.

ancientsgate · August 2, 2012 12:14 am

Lupin wrote:
@Mattlocked: I believe he knew at least one of them was going to die on the roof and even planned to kill Moriarty if need be. I think the suicide came as a shock to him, not his death. Moriarty's death was always a part of the plan.

Do you think Sherlock was getting ready to push Moriarty over the edge when he grabbed him like that and said "you're insane!' to him? Because that wouldn't have worked. If he'd pushed him then and let him die like the dog he was on the sidewalk below, that would have garnered a crowd, interfering with Sherlock's phone call/note with John and his own fall, which needed to be closely coordinated by his helpers on the ground. So, what? I wonder what Sherlock's true plans for Moriarty were, before Moriarty forced his hand (both by offing himself and by making it clear that Sherlock had to die, or his friends would).

I believe he will clear his name by rounding up the rest of Moriarty's empire with Mycroft and the MOD in secret. Once that is complete, with the end being the arrest of Moran, then all the evidence of Moriarty will be brought to light.

I absolutely agree that Mycroft will figure large in where Sherlock has been, what Sherlock got done to protect his friends, and Sherlock's eventual decision to come out of hiding. Especially since Sherlock has to be in hiding for a while, that would mean that leaning on Mycroft's help would be almost a necessity.We can say what we want about Mycroft, but he is well-placed and influential, and he has resources Sherlock could never have. Sherlock is more the well-educated and experienced street rat, while Mycroft is apparently the Queen's own right-hand-man in his own way. The two of them, if they would or could actually work together, would be a force to reckon with.

ancientsgate · August 2, 2012 12:56 am

Mattlocked wrote:
That's right - but on the other hand: Why should he "freak out" like that when Jim killed himself?
In that blog it was explained that just the camera "freaked out" to lead us on a wrong track and so you couldn't see his face in that scene.

Why should he freak out? Um, because he's only human? He also reacted that way when those killers he was shaking hands with got killedl-- jumping away from them, crying out, twisting around to look in all directions.

As KP said, this might be Ben's signature way (his method, if you will) of acting in such a scene. In fact, I imagine it is. A good director will want his actors to do what looks best on them, if there's any leeway in the script at all. When doing run-throughs, he'll get his actors aside and ask them what would feel most comfortable to them, what way would they like to play a certain scene (in this case, Sherlock's reaction to immediate, unexpected death right in front of him) and then the director will set up his camera angles and shots to best capture that good-quality acting.

And yes, of course it's possible that a whole lot was done, both with camera work and in the editing room, in order to mislead us viewers. That's part of the fun.

Lupin · August 2, 2012 1:29 am

@ancient: That's true. He couldn't have intended to throw Moriarty off when he grabbed him the first time. I think that was to threaten Moriarty and show he was capable of doing it, perhaps foreshadow what was to come. If he had thrown him off, then it would have been poorly timed with his plan.

Last edited by Lupin (August 2, 2012 1:33 am)

Davina · August 2, 2012 6:20 am

Agree Ancientsgate. Not only a reaction to the unexpected death of the adversary he was just shaking hands with but also the realisation in an instant that Moriarty could have just shot him instead.

ancientsgate · August 2, 2012 10:51 am

Davina wrote:
Agree Ancientsgate. Not only a reaction to the unexpected death of the adversary he was just shaking hands with but also the realisation in an instant that Moriarty could have just shot him instead.

Yeah. I thought of that, too. In all those cases, with the bad guys dying right in front of him, let's just say-- glad the OTHER bad guys were crack shots. Eeeeek.

Our Division · August 5, 2012 9:36 pm

The dump truck definitely had something to do with it, as did the random biker who JUST SO HAPPENED to VERY CONVENIENTLY knock John over (affecting his point of view of the events), not to mention giving him a nasty blow on the head. Everything John saw is no longer reliable.
I'm beginning to think that Molly might just be to throw us off the scent. It would be very Mofftiss of them. Mycroft is probably involved, yeah.
Also - did you guys notice that Moriarty was locked up earlier by Mycroft in a previous episode, before he'd even broken in anywhere?
Hmmmm.

Arya · August 5, 2012 11:46 pm

Welcome to the forum, Our Division

Two things: 1) "Everything John saw is no longer reliable." Are you implying that we saw that scene in John's viewpoint? I think Moftiss will do something more clever than that. 2) If Molly is just a red herring, then what did Sherlock ask her to do?

Lupin · August 6, 2012 1:15 am

@Our Division: Mycroft explains to John that he interrogated Moriarty about the "key" and that was when he talked about Sherlock's life. Moriarty at the end references the end of Hounds of Baskerville when he says Sherlock's brother and all the king's men couldn't make him do anything he didn't want to do.

One could equally argue that the dump truck is a red herring and Molly is actually an integral part of how Sherlock survived. Is there any evidence in the episode that would suggest Molly didn't have a part in the ending?

@Arya: I sympathize with your sentiments but I don't think we can disregard theories by simply saying Moftiss would do something more clever. Even the notion of clever here is somewhat subjective to start with. I agree with you that Molly doesn't seem like a red herring, especially since Sherlock chose the hospital roof for his meeting with Moriarty.

Last edited by Lupin (August 6, 2012 1:20 am)

Arya · August 6, 2012 1:50 am

Lupin wrote:
@Arya: I sympathize with your sentiments but I don't think we can disregard theories by simply saying Moftiss would do something more clever. Even the notion of clever here is somewhat subjective to start with.

Good point I just think that they already used the hallucination idea in HoB, and I don't think they'll use the same idea twice. IMO, the biker was just used to distract John for a minute or two.

Lupin · August 6, 2012 5:53 am

Arya wrote:
Lupin wrote:
@Arya: I sympathize with your sentiments but I don't think we can disregard theories by simply saying Moftiss would do something more clever. Even the notion of clever here is somewhat subjective to start with.
Good point I just think that they already used the hallucination idea in HoB, and I don't think they'll use the same idea twice. IMO, the biker was just used to distract John for a minute or two.

Well, Moriarty did use the botulinum toxin twice in The Great Game. I agree but at the same time falling into a garbage truck or something along those lines isn't all that original either.

The biker disoriented John but he saw Sherlock's face on the pavement before he got hit and, watching the scene unfold, there are nurses and passerbys running to the body while John is on the ground. If someone wants to argue that another body fell and Sherlock substituted in during John's fall they'd have to explain how no one else on the street took notice and also how Sherlock inhumanly got to the bottom of the hospital and beat a body falling to the ground to make the switch. Also, the color of the eyes of Sherlock's body suggest it wasn't Moriarty in a Sherlock mask.

In addition, tricks involving a jump would require that Moriarty wasn't watching to see the trick otherwise it wouldn't work. It would be hard to imagine that Sherlock planned for Moriarty to be alive when he jumped, since it's unlikely Moriarty wouldn't watch to confirm the death. One could say Moriarty isn't the kind to watch but that's not something you can plan for really.

Last edited by Lupin (August 6, 2012 9:41 pm)