BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » I know that this episode gets a bad rep from Sherlock fans….

SolarSystem · February 17, 2015 9:57 pm

Vhanja wrote:
You would surely think he would give in when Sherlock gave his Hollywood cliche "I don't have friends, I only have you"

Interesting. I never thought about this being a Hollywood cliché. Probably because, quoted correctly, Sherlock says "I don't have friends. I've just got one" - so he doesn't even explicitly say "John" or "you", he goes for a bit more subtext. But we all know - and John knows - who he's talking about. And that's the beauty of it.

Last edited by SolarSystem (February 17, 2015 10:00 pm)

Vhanja · February 17, 2015 10:07 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
You would surely think he would give in when Sherlock gave his Hollywood cliche "I don't have friends, I only have you"
Interesting. I never thought about this being a Hollywood cliché. Probably because, quoted correctly, Sherlock says "I don't have friends. I've just got one" - so he doesn't even explicitly say "John" or "you", he goes for a bit more subtext. But we all know - and John knows - who he's talking about. And that's the beauty of it.

Ah, yes, slight mis-quote from me there. But I always found that line slightly cheesy and melodramatic. Not so much a sign of bad writing as a sign of Sherlock's melodramatic nature. And John isn't sold by it, which surprised me. Because in every bad Hollywood movie, a line like that would melt the other part. And it doesn't melt John (not immediately anyway). That surprised me - and that's why I love it so much.

Whisky · February 17, 2015 11:13 pm

I think, as I have just written in the other thread, that the apology scene shows how sure John is of their friendship. John must know he is Sherlock's only friend, and he must know that Sherlock needs him in the end... that he will come and try an embarassing apology. I think if John thought Sherlock meant what he said (not having friends), he wouldn't stay calm. But he knows it's just an insult because Sherlock was upset and distressed. That's what I like about it - John can keep Sherlock on a long lash, because he knows he will follow.
It's sad to think that after TRF, this security is kind of lost on John's side.

Vhanja · February 17, 2015 11:17 pm

Whisky wrote:
It's sad to think that after TRF, this security is kind of lost on John's side.

Yes, I agree fully. HoB to me shows the two of them at their strongest, most secure. And after the fall, I never see that again.

That is why no episode in S3 can ever be my favorite.

Last edited by Vhanja (February 17, 2015 11:17 pm)

kornmuhme · July 5, 2015 8:32 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Speaking of John, I find this to be one of his strongest episodes. His calm and assured way of handling Sherlock out of control, him pulling rank, doing his own UMQRA-research, chatting up the psychiatrist, his calm and self-esteem while Sherlock tries to fumble his excuse, him finding the meat receipts of the veg restaurant, his logic in the face of horror during the "experiment", calling Sherlock out on his sugar error ... I can't recall any epsiode where John is as calm, assertive, strong and secure of himself as in this episode.

When I saw this episode for the first time, it was one thing that really stood out that told me I was watching a high quality show - the apology scene at the graveyard. You would think John would give in as soon as Sherlock admitted to doubt himself, but he didn't. You would surely think he would give in when Sherlock gave his Hollywood cliche "I don't have friends, I only have you" - and he didn't! I love when a show surprise me, and I can't predict correctly what will happen. And that scene did exactly that.

So, yeah, I think the one thing I love above anything about this episode is that it shows the strongest John I've ever seen.

I absolutely agree with you! I just love the interaction between John and Sherlock in this episode, because John seems so strong and ... mhm, kind of "independent". He's doing his own stuff/investigation, he knows how to handle with Sherlock and his temperament and he doesn't give in immediately after Sherlock's apologize.
Although it's not my faverouite episode it has some memorable moments :-)!

Vhanja · July 5, 2015 8:37 pm

Independent is a good word. I wish we could have more John like we saw in HoB, it was really great.

One thing I found a bit odd, though. After their argument (with Sherlock's "I don't have friends!") John goes out (presumably to get some air). That's when he sees the "morse lights" again, and goes to investigate.

I know for sure that if the guy whom I thought was my best friend had told me something like that, I would be so angry and hurt that I would never be in the mood to continue the investigation the moment I left the argument. I would probably think "Sod this, let him figure it out!" and storm of for a sulky walk.

But maybe it has more to do with moving the plot forward, I don't know.

Last edited by Vhanja (July 5, 2015 8:37 pm)

nakahara · July 5, 2015 8:50 pm

I believe John is excited about the case too and would like to solve it himself if he could.

Kittyhawk · July 8, 2015 11:37 am

maryagrawatson wrote:
I ....

Finally, this is the episode with the most hilarious revelation ever: not only does Sherlock know how to drive, it's such a perfectly normal thing for him to do that the absurdity of the fact is never brought up in the episode.

Mary

Why would that be absurd? For me it's perfectly logical that somebody who believes that most people are idiots would prefer to drive himself (cabbies are pros, but neither GPs nor army captains are necessarily good drivers). That way he only needs to worry about the idiots in the other cars...

Vhanja · July 8, 2015 2:17 pm

Well, the plan was for John to drive, seeing as Sherlock is more the type that wants the mundane stuff to be done for him. Only reason they changed it was that Martin didn't have his driver's license by then.

kornmuhme · July 8, 2015 2:19 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Independent is a good word. I wish we could have more John like we saw in HoB, it was really great.

One thing I found a bit odd, though. After their argument (with Sherlock's "I don't have friends!") John goes out (presumably to get some air). That's when he sees the "morse lights" again, and goes to investigate.

I know for sure that if the guy whom I thought was my best friend had told me something like that, I would be so angry and hurt that I would never be in the mood to continue the investigation the moment I left the argument. I would probably think "Sod this, let him figure it out!" and storm of for a sulky walk.

But maybe it has more to do with moving the plot forward, I don't know.

Yeah, I know what you mean. As for me, I'd be deeply hurt. But I also think, that John is a type of character that doesn't "freak out" immediately. He was a soldier, he has always had to stay calm and rational in all kinds of situations. Maybe he pushes his feelings aside and goes on with the investigation. Of course he himself is also curious what the case is all about.
And the next day we all can clearly see how angry he is about Sherlock! But he can also forgive rapidly - certainly he knows how badly Sherlock behaves from time to time.

Kittyhawk · July 9, 2015 1:34 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Well, the plan was for John to drive, seeing as Sherlock is more the type that wants the mundane stuff to be done for him. Only reason they changed it was that Martin didn't have his driver's license by then.

Yes I know, I've heard the commentary. But seeing what Sherlock is able to do on a motorbike he must have some pretty fantastic reflexes which should make him a competent car driver, as well. So I think it perfectly in character for him to prefer to be behind the wheel himself - though I also imagine John being treated to a running commentary on the idiocy of all the other drivers on the road.

Vhanja · July 9, 2015 1:37 pm

Oh, yeah, I don't doubt that Sherlock is a competent driver. Just that he normally wouldn't be bothered.

Kittyhawk · July 9, 2015 1:48 pm

kornmuhme wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
....
I know for sure that if the guy whom I thought was my best friend had told me something like that, I would be so angry and hurt that I would never be in the mood to continue the investigation the moment I left the argument. I would probably think "Sod this, let him figure it out!" and storm of for a sulky walk.
....
....Of course he himself is also curious what the case is all about.
......

Well, John does storm off for a walk, which is how he sees the flashing lights. So he takes a closer look, hoping to solve the case (and WTF is going on there? Sex in a car, pretty obviously - but with an audience?????) - being able to do that just once would be the perfect "revenge".

Yitzock · July 9, 2015 1:55 pm

In response to Vhanja's post: Yes. If it's not a car chase or something I'm sure driving would just seem quite boring for him.

Last edited by Yitzock (July 9, 2015 1:56 pm)

RavenMorganLeigh · July 16, 2015 8:07 pm

I don't know-- Sherlock is good with gadgets, particularly those that can be employed in solving a case! And this is the guy who took off for two years and was able to take down Moriarty's criminal network, which implies prior training , like as in MI6 or something. So, sure-- he'd be able to drive! And drive well!