BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

Liberty · June 27, 2015 6:10 pm

I agree that Magnussen thinks he has won.

I think Mary meant to kill him, before she was intererrupted.. John thinks she was going to kill him too. In the deleted scene, Magnussen thinks so too. In the commentary, Steven Moffat says that Mary has worked out that the only thing to do with Magnussen is shoot him in the face. And it does make sense - even if he'd handed over a document, he could still have a backup. She's an assassin - the safest thing for her would be to kill him. But it looks as if she had made it personal - letting him see her face and making him suffer.

And I think Magnussen kept the information about Mary secret because it gave him more power and leverage over John/Sherlock/Mycroft. As Sherlock said, Mary calculated that he would do that, that it was his MO.

Kittyhawk · June 27, 2015 6:14 pm

Bearing tonnaree's point in mind there's no guarantee that anybody called the ambulance! Sherlock bases his deduction that Mary called (assuming that he really believes that) on the average arrival time for an ambulance in London, which is 8 Minutes (and which would have been too long, I suppose Sherlock supposes, though it's not said). If 8 Minutes is the average, shorter times are perfectly possible.

Otherwise you are both right, Mary uses CAM's phone, Ariane DeVere says so (http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/68242.html).

I also agree with Whisky that CAM didn't think Sherlock would murder him - he can't even have suspected John and Sherlock would be armed (and that doesn't make a lot of sense either - he should have had his bodyguards check them) - but telling a well-connected celibrity and his blogger about the non-existing archives amounts to shouting the information from the rooftops! Either John or Sherlock could have easily spread the word and wait for another of CAM's victim's to kill him... Giving the game away was just plain stupid on CAM's part.

Whisky · June 27, 2015 7:31 pm

Well, at that point CAM still thought both would end up with charges, maybe he was confident they wouldn't interfere later. And Sherlock is one of the few he could tell about the mind palace because Sherlock would understand. If the police (let's think an Anderson or Sally) came asking about his secrets vaults and he said: "it's all in my head",they would have laughed and assumed the vaults where not in Appledore but elsewhere hidden. I think he could have told lots of people and they would just have ignored him and kept searching for vaults. Maybe he felt a certain thrill to boast with his mind abilities in front of so. who could actually appreciate his accomplishment.

tonnaree · June 27, 2015 8:23 pm

Whisky wrote:
But it makes no sense to show things in a totally wrong way because we as viewers would never come to a right conclusion. Sherlock says Mary called, and I would believe him. The alternative would be that CAM called instead of Mary, and I don't think that makes sense if I see the power balance in the office - Mary has the gun and is in charge, why would she let CAM make the phonecall. John is so quickly after in the office, Mary can't have more than few moments and if she was to make sure someone calls an ambulance she would have to do it herself. Also CAM looks pretty confused and knocked out, not sure he would grasp the situation quick enough. All he says is "he got shot", and while he says it he looks like he is still processing the information. So I would put my bets on Mary as the one phoning.

I think CAM shows the room to John and Sherlock because he thinks he has already won. It doesn't occure to him that Sherlock would murder him. He believes in a higher power - himself. Very similar to Sherlock in that regard, if we are to believe Irene's opinion on Sherlock.

I would never assume the writers want us to come to the "right" conclusion. They could very well want us to be misled.............for reasons.

Harriet · July 1, 2015 8:08 pm

From BBC shop: Sherlock TITANS: The 221B Baker Street Collection (Single Unit)
Interesting detail: Mary is not with John. Not even in row two. She is with Moriarty. And Irene. And Moriarty.

Source: http://www.bbcshop.com/sherlock/sherlock-titans-the-221b-baker-street-collection-single-unit/invt/slvmini001

SolarSystem · July 1, 2015 8:13 pm

Nice observation, Harriet...!

RavenMorganLeigh · July 1, 2015 8:21 pm

HA!!!!!

That's awesome, Harriet!!!

SusiGo · July 1, 2015 8:25 pm

This is brilliant. The stars, the good guys, the bad guys.

Harriet · July 1, 2015 8:31 pm

John and Mary are not even recognisable as a couple.

Last edited by Harriet (July 1, 2015 8:33 pm)

SusiGo · July 1, 2015 8:35 pm

Which reminds me of the Sherlockology trailers. They are not exactly known as big shippers but their S3 trailers are very Sherlock-John-Magnussen centric.

SolarSystem · July 1, 2015 8:40 pm

Harriet wrote:
John and Mary are not even recognisable as a couple.

And why should they be?

SusiGo · July 1, 2015 8:41 pm

Bad, bad girl.

Mattlocked · July 1, 2015 8:43 pm

Great find!

I don't like those faces, btw.
Only Mary looks like Mary imo.

SolarSystem · July 1, 2015 8:47 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
I don't like those faces, btw.
Only Mary looks like Mary imo.

I think it makes sense to wait for the actual figurines. I'm sure they'll look a lot better, at least that's the case with the Doctor Who Titans.

Harriet · July 1, 2015 9:08 pm

Solar, agree. And to see who lies next to whom in the box.

SusiGo · July 1, 2015 9:11 pm

And if we do not like it, we can change the arrangement.

Harriet · July 1, 2015 9:20 pm

We don't have to, it seems

Mattlocked · July 1, 2015 9:21 pm

Oh... I didn't know. I thought this was it. Ahem.

Time for bed. Good night!

tonnaree · July 2, 2015 12:15 am

*makes additions to birthday wish list*

nakahara · July 2, 2015 8:36 pm

Mary asks her confidante for help:

http://marymorstanismyhero.tumblr.com/post/88070691954/help-i-am-so-relieved-to-being-able-to-tell