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June 21, 2015 11:05 pm  #1221


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

So good Mary ish version has Mary still working for the cia via Mycroft and thats why no kill shot on SH.Boss problems! ...and if she married John as Mycrofts plant..bodyguard..as on the memory stick...yes..John would hate that.
It's all Mycroft and Moriarty playing human chess ?

Last edited by lil (June 21, 2015 11:07 pm)

 

June 22, 2015 12:29 am  #1222


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

The CIA--and I believe MI5 as well--DO employ freelancers for all sorts of things. (Including things that they want to have plausible deniability on.)


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June 22, 2015 7:27 am  #1223


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

lil wrote:

So good Mary ish version has Mary still working for the cia via Mycroft and thats why no kill shot on SH.Boss problems! ...and if she married John as Mycrofts plant..bodyguard..as on the memory stick...yes..John would hate that.
It's all Mycroft and Moriarty playing human chess ?

Interesting thoughts. There is a big, big mystery around Mary and Mycroft, if you ask me, and I hope there will be some explanation to come. Because how could he overlook per past if he thoroughly checks everyone coming into contact with his brother (or his best friend)? And what about his non-reaction to the shooting? 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 22, 2015 8:26 am  #1224


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

lil wrote:

So good Mary ish version has Mary still working for the cia via Mycroft and thats why no kill shot on SH.Boss problems! ...and if she married John as Mycrofts plant..bodyguard..as on the memory stick...yes..John would hate that.
It's all Mycroft and Moriarty playing human chess ?

Interesting thoughts. There is a big, big mystery around Mary and Mycroft, if you ask me, and I hope there will be some explanation to come. Because how could he overlook per past if he thoroughly checks everyone coming into contact with his brother (or his best friend)? And what about his non-reaction to the shooting? 

That's true. It is a bit of a non-reaction. I mean, does he know that it was her that shot him? And if he doesn't know, how come he didn't put more effort and energy (or at least order someone else to) find out more about who the killer was? We all know that "not caring" about Sherlock is a fake. He loves his little brother dearly, deep down.


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June 22, 2015 10:00 am  #1225


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

lil wrote:

So good Mary ish version has Mary still working for the cia via Mycroft and thats why no kill shot on SH.Boss problems! ...and if she married John as Mycrofts plant..bodyguard..as on the memory stick...yes..John would hate that.
It's all Mycroft and Moriarty playing human chess ?

Interesting thoughts. There is a big, big mystery around Mary and Mycroft, if you ask me, and I hope there will be some explanation to come. Because how could he overlook per past if he thoroughly checks everyone coming into contact with his brother (or his best friend)? And what about his non-reaction to the shooting? 

That's true. It is a bit of a non-reaction. I mean, does he know that it was her that shot him? And if he doesn't know, how come he didn't put more effort and energy (or at least order someone else to) find out more about who the killer was? We all know that "not caring" about Sherlock is a fake. He loves his little brother dearly, deep down.

This for me might be the most fascinating question in the whole Mary complex. There is just no way Mycroft did not know. About everything else I can see some reasoning behind (which is not the same as agreeing with everything that happened), but this just does not make any sense to me. Why would Mycroft first allow (or even plant) an (ex)assassin that close to his brother? Especially one that could bring about his own downfall (and Sherlock's)?
 


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

June 22, 2015 10:05 am  #1226


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Well, there are various possibilities:
- he really does not know which would be highly improbable and OOC
- he knows and planted her for some reason himself and it went badly wrong
- he knows and resents it but his hands are tied for some reason which would be in accordance with M theory and probably some other ideas about a long Mycroft arc extending over all episodes 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 22, 2015 11:12 am  #1227


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

- he knows and resents it but his hands are tied for some reason which would be in accordance with M theory and probably some other ideas about a long Mycroft arc extending over all episodes 
 

This one is my favourite.


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

 

June 22, 2015 11:21 am  #1228


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

So is mine. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 22, 2015 11:44 am  #1229


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Maybe the show should change of name, then... " Mycroft Holmes and Brother", " Holmes Brothers and Co" ?
I really hope the "adventure of Mary Morstan" is done and burned with the AGRA USB drive.

 

June 22, 2015 11:53 am  #1230


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I do not really understand what you mean. The relationship between the brothers has been an important element from the very beginning and will surely continue to be developed in future episodes. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 22, 2015 11:59 am  #1231


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I reacted to : "a long Mycroft arc extending over all episodes"  If that was what the writers intended to do from the beginning, it wouldn't be an adaptation of Sherlock Holme.
As much as I like Sherlock and Mycroft Holmes relationships in the show, I don't wish Sherlock Holmes being Mycroft's puppet.
 

 

June 22, 2015 12:44 pm  #1232


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Sherlock does not need to be Mycroft's puppet. But Mycroft's role throughout series 3 was a strange one and I think there will be more to come. As for the "long story arcs" - they are an important element of the show. Mark and Steven have said that they planned the Moriarty story from the very beginning. It has extended over nine episodes so far without making it the Moriarty show. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 22, 2015 12:57 pm  #1233


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

A character can have a long arc without it being the primary focus of the show.  The primary focus will always be Sherlock and John but it is interesting to see how the other characters affect and are affected by our boys.  I love complexity.


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June 22, 2015 1:14 pm  #1234


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

This gets a bit off topic, but, actually, I think there's much more improvisation in the writing of the show than the writers want to say.  ( But, that's a personnal opinion, I can't be sure, and anyway, the way it is is OK for me).
I think there's more to come with Mycroft Holmes too in S4 too, but not this way. 
Mycroft  knowing everything and pulling the strings would be to me both tortuous and "too easy" ( I don't like the deus ex machina Mycroft) to get through Mary's story, especially if Moriarty is involved in it too. The writers already used that trick to get through the story of the fall, and I would be disappointed if they used it again.

 

June 22, 2015 1:45 pm  #1235


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

True, this is going off topic and may be continued in one of the Mycroft threads. 

Just a last word - a non-omniscient Mycroft would indeed be far more interesting. That is why I mentioned M theory and other theories involving a compromised Mycroft. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 22, 2015 1:53 pm  #1236


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

One last OT concerning Mycroft:
Whether or not this might have been planned from the very start, I would love it if eventually we got an episode which revolves around Mycroft and brings lots of strands from previous episodes together. I would love it because Mycroft has been more or less in the background during S1 and S2 and has played a rather ominous role during S3, still without being in the foreground. I'm sure this story about Mycroft would involve Sherlock in a very emotional and dramatic way, so it would still be "Sherlock" through and through. It's absolutely possible to have both: a story arc about Mycroft with Sherlock still being in the centre of it all.
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (June 22, 2015 1:54 pm)


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"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

June 22, 2015 1:57 pm  #1237


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Yes, I agree. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

June 22, 2015 2:47 pm  #1238


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I'd like an episode revolving around Mycroft too , and maybe the "past biting back" is going to be about him and his History with Sherlock. I just dont want him involved and filling in the gaps in Sherlock Holmes's investigations.
 

 

June 22, 2015 5:10 pm  #1239


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I love this discussion and it really makes my fingers itch to join in, but can we maybe continue here: ​http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=6278 ? 


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

June 22, 2015 6:09 pm  #1240


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Thank you, Lola, good idea. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

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