BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

Mattlocked · June 19, 2015 10:08 pm

Just because he doesn't say "Hey, look at me, I'm a villain" doesn't mean that he doesn't know that he is.

SusiGo · June 19, 2015 10:09 pm

And it is not about self-awareness but knowing how to use his knowledge of others. And in this he is usually right.

Harriet · June 19, 2015 10:10 pm

Vhanja wrote:
You can be highly intelligent without having too much self-awareness.

Evidence in CAM's case?

Mattlocked · June 19, 2015 10:10 pm

Exactly, Susi. He can only have all that power by knowing everything about people.
And he says Mary is bad. And Mary says Mary is bad.
So Mary must be good.

Last edited by Mattlocked (June 19, 2015 10:11 pm)

Vhanja · June 19, 2015 10:11 pm

He knows how to use his knowledge of others, but again - with someone who has a moral compass that askew, I would never trust his moral judgement of any character. But there is no right or wrong here. Other people dont' have a problem trusting his opinion, and that is fine. I'm just saying that when it comes to forming my opinion on Mary, Magnussen is the least of my influences.

Last edited by Vhanja (June 19, 2015 10:11 pm)

Vhanja · June 19, 2015 10:12 pm

Harriet wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
You can be highly intelligent without having too much self-awareness.
Evidence in CAM's case?

I thought I just posted my reasoning behind how I view Magnussen?

Harriet · June 19, 2015 10:12 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
Exactly, Susi. He can only have all that power by knowing everything about people.
And he says Mary is bad. And Mary says Mary is bad.
So Mary must be good.

Oh. How could I miss this?

Mattlocked · June 19, 2015 10:12 pm

Let me say it like this.
If he would say: Oh, I like her very much, she's a good girl!
I would get the feeling there is something wrong.

Vhanja · June 19, 2015 10:12 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
Exactly, Susi. He can only have all that power by knowing everything about people.
And he says Mary is bad. And Mary says Mary is bad.
So Mary must be good.

I don't operate with "good" or "bad" when it comes to Mary and other Sherlock characters. Most of them are, thankfully, much more complex than that.

Mattlocked · June 19, 2015 10:16 pm

Yes. They are.
What about "mainly good" and "mainly bad"?

Now we can discuss if the guys in prison are only bad or if they have a good side, too.......

SusiGo · June 19, 2015 10:19 pm

For me the best description of a complex character in the series is "on the side of the angels but not one of them". And this is not what I would call Mary, Magnussen, or Moriarty.

Vhanja · June 19, 2015 10:20 pm

I find Mary to be leauges away from Magnussen and Moriarty. Eons away. (And, no, that does not mean I view her as "good" or "nice").

Mattlocked · June 19, 2015 10:21 pm

Moriarty!!!!!
(Ooops, sorry, OT. )

Harriet · June 19, 2015 10:22 pm

Shht, Mattlocked, check your moral compass, please!

Mattlocked · June 19, 2015 10:25 pm

Sorry again. The nicest villain I know.

Vhanja wrote:
I find Mary to be leauges away from Magnussen and Moriarty. Eons away. (And, no, that does not mean I view her as "good" or "nice").

We don't know if she really is leagues away. We don't know what's on the stick. We don't know if she told the truth about her past.
We only know about her behaviour. Which is not nice at all.
Actually I would call it bad.

Last edited by Mattlocked (June 19, 2015 10:26 pm)

SusiGo · June 19, 2015 10:26 pm

Yes. We can only judge her by how she behaves and by what others tell us about her because she chooses not to speak for herself.

Harriet · June 19, 2015 10:27 pm

Mary is "a bit not good"?

Mattlocked · June 19, 2015 10:27 pm

Or a bit more...

Vhanja · June 19, 2015 10:28 pm

They are all a "bit not good". In various degrees. God, I love this show.

SusiGo · June 19, 2015 10:30 pm

A bit not good assassin. Well ...