BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Moriarty theories

Ivy · February 14, 2014 12:38 pm

"Stayin’ alive! It’s so boring, isn’t it? It’s just ...staying."

SpiralStaircase · February 15, 2014 3:37 pm

Now my theory is probably totally wrong but it was fun to come up with, so here goes...

I've always felt that Moriarty wasn't the real Moriarty. In series one Moriarty was never supposed to reveal himself blah blah blah, and then, suddenly, he appeared at the end.

I've always wondered whether the Moriarty we see is really an actor, working for the real Moriarty. He is a very over dramatic character after all.

Anyhoo...when you see (the pretend?) Moriarty being interogated by Mycroft, what if he did actually cave, and tell Mycroft that he was working for the real Moriarty, and the pretend Moriarty struck a deal with Mycroft, so from that scene of being released by Mycroft, Moriarty was then working FOR Mycroft, but secretly of course. Sooooo (sorry if this is getting complicated!)...Andrew Scott's Moriarty is then pretending to work for the real Moriarty, but is secretly working for Mycroft. And the rooftop scene was all another 'act' in the play, to convince the real Moriarty that Sherlock had fallen for it...

Of course, then I've no idea what Sherlock could have been doing those two years he was away...

But anyhoo...that is my crazy theory...that the pretend Moriarty didn't really blow his brains out because he was working for Mycroft and it was all orchestrated by Mycroft and Sherlock...

Um...yeah...my brains feel a bit blown after writing all that...ha ha!

Probably none of it is correct but I thought I'd share it for a giggle...

Michele · February 16, 2014 10:46 pm

The thing I don't like about the Moriarty isn't Moriarty theory is that I love Andrew Scott's performance. And if the 'real Moriarty' came forward I feel like he'd have to knock the performance out of the park.

SpiralStaircase · February 17, 2014 4:56 pm

Michele wrote:
The thing I don't like about the Moriarty isn't Moriarty theory is that I love Andrew Scott's performance. And if the 'real Moriarty' came forward I feel like he'd have to knock the performance out of the park.

Oh yes, I totally agree. Andrew is great in the part.
Like I said, my theory is rather wacky anyway and highly unlikely, but I thought I'd share anyway.

James Norrington · February 21, 2014 1:20 pm

First thing I've got to say is that I haven't been able to watch 'The Sign of Three' yet because it wasn't recorded properly. So maybe something happened in that episode that explains why my most recent theory makes no sense at all (and there could, of course, be some other things I may have overlooked as I have watched the other episodes of series 3 only once and without subtitles and as you know, there were so many things going on...).

While laying in my bed and waiting for sleep to come I was once again thinking about Moriarty (*cough* yes, I do this sometimes *lol*) and him maybe not being dead. As much as I would love him coming back, I do not believe he really is. But I'd be the first of screeming 'hurray' if he would turn up alive.
So I was thinking and then suddenly the idea came up: What if it was Anderson behind all this? The last thing I had seen of him was (if I remember correctly) him breaking down after his 'vision' of Sherlock telling him how he survived. So I thought what if Anderson was really turning mad and developped some kind of addiction to Sherlock and wanted to draw his attention, no matter what? So I have no idea at all how he should have managed to send the Moriarty-video all over England to appear on every screen and if my theory isn't just incredibly dumb, but it was just something I came up with. I don't really like it myself as I badly want the real Moriarty back.

RemyGreyson · February 23, 2014 7:16 pm

James Moriarty- I believe that the 'Miss Me?' sequence was not pre-recorded due to the post-credits scene. He's still alive, or has a twin- Richard Brooke. The Mycroft theory would have been plausible without the post-credits scene
"I could kill Rich Brooke and bring back Jim Moriarty!" -Sherlock, Reichenbach FallThis could mean that the 'Moriarty' killed on the roof is Jim's twin- Sherlock met Jim at the pool only or not at all. Every behind-the-scenes event, every crime and puzzle made by Jim for Sherlock was actually by the 'true' Moriarty, but the in-person meeting on the rooftop was Richard Brooke. Rich Brooke is dead, and Jim Moriarty is back.
Therefore, Sherlock has effectively killed Rich Brooke and James Moriarty has been brought back.
Another quote to support my theory: "I'm so changeable!" -James Moriarty, Great GameThis line was an excuse for having two slightly different personalities or making unexpected decisions. Because one Moriarty is Rich Brooke and the other is actually James Moriarty, their actions, reactions and decisions are bound to be ever-so-slightly different. The Moriarty at the pool is a lot colder, more calculated and controlled. The Moriarty on the roof is more dramatic- more like an 'actor'- Rich Brooke. He was theatrical: "Ordinary Sherlock!", "It's just… staying!"
Moran could have helped. Moriarty could have been on the run or hiding out somewhere, so Moran handled the network and arranged crimes while he was away.

Thanks for reading! First post

natal · March 11, 2014 11:21 pm

Swanpride wrote:
I stick to "We get a proper version of Sebastian Moran" - it kind of makes sense. We got the Anti-Sherlock with Moriarty, the Anti-Mycroft with Magnusson, I think it is time that we get the Anti-John. And that happens to be Moran.

That coukd work if Moran wasnt in jail and frankky didnt seem able to have a bigger role later. I havent read the canon and I was thinking that there must be some enemy that is related somehow to Moriarty.
Anyway there are two Moriartys? I wonder if Janine could be a part of this plot. I am confused

Last edited by natal (March 12, 2014 12:19 am)

Maurolukos · March 24, 2014 1:25 am

As I can remember,Moriarty was using info against Sherlock from Mycroft,right?So maybe the Fall was planned from Moriarty,Mycroft and Sherlock too.That's how Sherlock was sure for his jump and...Moriarty's suicide!!!Sherlock was "surprised" and acted as he had to,in order to play the game...and save his friends!Moriarty was satisfied that the game was on,plus he had a "nice fellow", (Mycroft)...Mycroft may needed Moriarty alive so he helped him with his suicide"!!!And Sherlock wouldn't be so "actor" before he jumps.Maybe he knows the Moriarty's trick from Mycroft and has to be emotional in order to fool Moriarty! After all, "This is a magic trick..."

Of course,he could be shot from a sniper in the back of his head as I didn't see any serious injuries in the front of his face.And this would destroy my previous theory...

Maurolukos · March 25, 2014 2:32 am

Could Jim be an actor as I read?Richard Brook?Could he be blackmailed or paid to "play" the game?Maybe the gun on the roof was empty or fake and a part of the plan(Richard's role in the game).And real Moriarty killed him for real with his snipers.Something like Jigsaw's victims-puppets in Saw :-P.

Also,it seems to me strange that John isn't as surprised as he should be in the last scene,learning about Moriarty's comeback from the dead...Hadn't Sherlock told him how Jim died...? ;-)

sara · May 8, 2014 12:09 am

I actually just posted this in a diffrent forum, but I thought it could fit here.
In the beginning of The Empty Hearse Anderson tells Lestrade his theory of how Sherlock survived. Anderson thinks a mask was placed on Moriarty's body that looked like Sherlock and fooled John. I think this is interesting, because if this is a plausible theory, what happened to Moriarty's body? If Moriarty's body had been on the roof, then it seems likely that Lestrange and Anderson would have seen it there when collecting evidence. That leads me to the conclusion that Moriarty's body is missing. If his body is missing then, I'm gonna guess Moriarty is also Not Dead. I know this could be explained if you consider, that Moriarty’s death might not be Lestrade’s division. So neither Lestrade or Anderson would have been able to see the crime scene. Which would make sense because they obviously were not able to see Sherlock’s body. This theory is probably wrong, but I'm gonna roll with it for now. Sorry for the ramblings.

Maurolukos · October 3, 2014 7:21 pm

Sara,he could use a Sherlock mask to Moriarty's body to fool John and also put on a Moriarty mask and lay down where Moriarty was after the shot!!!Crazy??? :-P

lil · October 3, 2014 7:46 pm

Hahah amusing thought.

It would make sense that Mycroft covered up Moriartys death for a while to buy Sherlock time while he was undercover infiltrating the web...nobody knows what/who Moriarty is remember....

Tho maybe they got dna match from the tea/apple b4 the body..

The man on the roof...dead...but J. Hope told us Moriarty was more than just a man.....and in HLV the scientific books heavily implied a secret family history between Moriartyz/Holmses...

not even mentioning that the Holmes live in The Red House....

Seems not unreasonable for timeline to make it January 06..so maybe the vid. Was Sherlocks birthday gift .

Last edited by lil (October 3, 2014 7:49 pm)

James Norrington · October 17, 2014 7:08 pm

Joalro wrote:
Moriarty is alive. TRF was a chess game between Moriarty and Sherlock, and Moriarty's death was simply a move. He was hoping that that move would force Sherlock into his death, but Sherlock had an appropriate coutner move.

The game is not over yet.

I so love this idea. Sherlock didn't die and Moriarty found out about it, so he probably watched Sherlock travelling around destroying the network while he was planning a new game in England which would start some time after Sherlock had come back home. Because if Moriarty is still alive, I just can't imagine him to just sit around for two years doing nothing. That would be so boring!

The family-idea (about mother Holmes) sounds also very interesting, though I'd be just a teensy bit... disappointed about it. :D

Last edited by James Norrington (October 17, 2014 7:09 pm)

chloejellybean5 · December 11, 2014 9:43 pm

If you watch the part where Moriarty shoots himself in slow motion, you can see that Sherlock closes his eyes, whilst Moriarty's shot is nowhere near his mouth.

aprilwats · March 17, 2015 7:09 am

I have no clue whether Moriarty survived. But I have 3 guesses for those "shocking" twists in Season 4.

Hints from the creaters: "A deeper, darker tragedy that reduced the cast to tears" "Expect the unexpected"

1) Molly will die.

All the other major reoccurring characters are canon and either do not die or their death we would expect (like Mary). A definite, final death would definitely make season 4 darker and more tragic than the other series.

2) Sherlock really did create Moriarty (or at least, felt somewhat guilty about how Moriarty came to be). Also, they are half brothers. Sherlock and Mycroft's dad had another kid - Moriaty. This parallels "The Adventure of the Priory School"

In the Adventure of the Priory School Sherlock says to a Duke (whose son was kidnapped by his other son): "To humour your guilty elder son, you have exposed your innocent younger son to imminent and unnecessary danger. It was a most unjustifiable action." Perhaps, once upon a time, Moriarty was an innocent younger son.

About Carl Powers' shoes in the Great Game, Sherlock says "It's where I began."

in TRF, at about 28 minutes in, we can see Kitty Riley's story. "Brook, who has known Holmes for decades and until recently considered him to be a close friend..." Mycroft: "Brook, recognize the name?" John: "School friend, maybe?" Mycroft laughs: "of Sherlock's?" (Sherlock doesn't have friends. He DID have family.)

Later, the Ambassador to the US requested the "Reichenbach hero" to investigate his children's disappearance. Sherlock: "Richard Brook in German is Reichenbach, the case that made my name." Moriarty: "Now can we finish the game? One final act." Moriarty: "Sherlock, your big brother and all the King’s horses couldn’t make me do a thing I didn’t want to." Sherlock: "Yes, but I’m not my brother, remember? I am you" Moriarty: "You're not ordinary. You're me. Thank you... Bless you." Moriarty realises that Sherlock identifies with him. When he kills himself, Sherlock shows shock and horror. He doesn't feel this way for the deaths of other criminals (for example, Magnussen).

Sherlock: "It's all true. Everything they said about me. I invented Moriarty... I created Moriarty for my own purposes..."

Moriaty threatened the lives of Sherlock's three friends, but not Mycroft or their parents. He made lots of "Daddy" references on the rooftop of St. Bart's. Lastly, of course, in "His Last Vow", Mycroft alludes to a third brother.

3) The villian for season 4? The worst villian yet? Someone no one would expect? Mycroft. The one who REALLY created Moriarty.

NatureNoHumansNo · March 17, 2015 12:13 pm

aprilwats wrote:
1) Molly will die.

All the other major reoccurring characters are canon and either do not die or their death we would expect (like Mary). A definite, final death would definitely make season 4 darker and more tragic than the other series.

That's an idea that had crossed my mind..But, maybe it could be more "twisted".
What if Molly helped Moriarty fake his death too. It could explain the public/police/government believing that he's dead whereas he's not.
And Molly has always been a fool for love. If Sherlock Holmes can manipulate her to do what he needs to be done, maybe Moriarty can too, since she's kind of " romantically involved" with both of them.
I know she told Sherlock Holmes that she ended her relationship with "Jim from IT", but what else could have she said at that time, and maybe it was true when she said it, but Moriarty came back to convince her just before the roof scene.
and it would stick to the canon quotes : "Women are never to be entirely trusted—not the best of them"

SusiGo · March 17, 2015 1:11 pm

I find it very improbably that Molly would fall a second time for Moriarty and I do not believe that she would have helped him to fake his death.
The most believable theory I have read is from loudest-subtext-in-television: Moriarty cooperates with one of his snipers. The handshake is the signal for the sniper to shoot a blood bag hidden under his collar or at the back of his head. Moriarty pulls the trigger of the unloaded gun the same moment the sniper shoots the bag. Of course the idea has its flaws but it within the universe of the show it is not impossible.

That said Molly might die. But I am sure she was not involved with Moriarty.

If a major character dies in series 4 or 5 (apart from Mary) I would go for Mycroft. Not because I want him to die, but there are lots of interesting possibilities involving him.

NatureNoHumansNo · March 17, 2015 1:20 pm

well, actually, we don't know that much about Molly and it would'nt be the first time we see a personnality reversal.
And, the theory with the blood handbag, well, yes, why not (although it doesn't explain anything about the public knowledge about Moriarty's death and dead body) but it doesn't bring anything to the dynamic of the show.

Liberty · March 17, 2015 1:29 pm

I think it would be easier and safer for Moriarty to set up something he could set off himself, rather than rely on a sniper, however good (if Mary is anything to go by - she either tried to kill Sherlock and missed, or tried to spare him and missed. At close range. Shooting at somebody's neck in such a way that it would burst a blood bag but not cause injury seems even harder). Pulling the gun's trigger, or some other cue, could cause the bag to burst.

SusiGo · March 17, 2015 1:39 pm

NatureNoHumansNo wrote:
well, actually, we don't know that much about Molly and it would'nt be the first time we see a personnality reversal.
And, the theory with the blood handbag, well, yes, why not (although it doesn't explain anything about the public knowledge about Moriarty's death and dead body) but it doesn't bring anything to the dynamic of the show.

IMO it would be repetitive to make Molly fall twice for Moriarty. I just mentioned the theory with the sniper in order to explain why I do not believe in Molly helping both Sherlock and Moriarty.

And of course there is (my preferred theory) that Moriarty is truly dead and someone has used CAM's extensive network to stage his return because three fake deaths are a bit much to stomach.