"Private LIfe" is on demand with my cable system right now.  I should take advantage and finally watch it.

To the non-johnlockers that admit they sometimes do see moments of johnlock in the series, thank you for your honesty and objectivity.

Liberty wrote:

I accept that people genuinely do see Johnlock there, and I obviously don't have any problem with that - why would I?   

How generous.

This may be another one of those "language issue" thingies, but you only have to "accept" things that are somehow outside the norm- and hard to take, haven't you? I mean, "accepting" always implies that something is not considered equal, but is merely tolerated, or doesn't it?

Haha, some of these Tumblr-post make me laugh, I love their observations.

http://221behavior.tumblr.com/post/109223605212/couldntpossiblycomment-john-drives-out-to-the

Hm, good question. I'm thinking that for John to doubt Sherlock, he would think Sherlock had an ulterior motive for entering a relationship with John. And what would that be? 

But, yes, he has good reason to doubt Sherlock. Tube scene, for instance. Sherlock can be very believable at emotional cunning if he want to. And if you don't have trust, you don't have anything.

I've never thought about this, actually, but it is a good point. 

Plus, John is Sherlock´s closest friend. He now has a bit of praxis to tell if he´s being had or if Sherlock is sincere, IMHO.

Since John witnessed Sherlock´s fake engagement, I think he would know if Sherlock would sincerely confess his love to him - it would look nothing alike his play with Janine.

But John did not believe Sherlock's speech in TRF, at least not the part about being a fake. He did not buy it for one moment. And we see at the grave that he still does not believe it. 

SusiGo wrote:

And yet Sherlock has helped and saved John over and over again - in ASiP, in TBB, in TRF, in TEH, in TSoT, in HLV  … He never abandoned him when it was really important. And John forgave him both in HoB and in TEH. 

Yes but that's what I mean. John keeps forgiving him. But Sherlock makes it necessary. He does abandon John (he absolutely did in TRF), but John forgives him. That doesn't mean John trusts him. I mean, I am sure John trusts Sherlock to save him, to get him out of bonfires, to shoot people for him, yes. But I am not sure John trusts him to care about his feelings in the best of ways. And Sherlock himself says that is mostly because he can't do it not because he wouldn't want to. He still thinks loving him is a "human error", and I don't think it's entirely selfbashing, I think he might actually think it's true.
How can John trust someone who isn't sure about being capable of a relationship himself?

I am not sure, does John believe Sherlock capable of love? And I don't mean the obvious answer, because yes Sherlock does love John, and loves Mrs. Hudson and of course he can love, as in caring deeply. But I mean capable of love in a relationship, of acknowledgement that he has a partner who relies on him, needs to trust him. Would Sherlock understand the concept? Or would he continue flirting with women because "it's for a case", and would he understand how John might feel about that, and could John always trust him that he knows the difference between "for a case" and "for real"? Because Sherlock totally misjudged in TEH, he didn't understand John's grief. He apologizes, yes, and John forgives him... but Sherlock keeps testing his limits and pushs him and that's not a good basis for trust and a relationship imo. I can see Sherlock be in a relationship and jump another roof, and that would be worse, because the abandon would even be greater, it wouldn't just be accidently misjudging, but kind of cruel.

I think John lets Sherlock off "easy" (I know TEH isn't really the best example for that), but would he in a relationship? I mean, being best friends and flatmates, and being in a relationship and living together, that's not the same even if it looks very much the same. I wonder if Sherlock could see the difference, and if John would trust Sherlock to see it and to act accordingly. Even a John might get sick of being dragged through emotional scenes and having to hear just another apology each time.

Also, John's trust issues... maybe he finds it easy to trust Sherlock, exactly because Sherlock isn't very reliable. But maybe a committed Sherlock would totally freak out John. I'd find that logical. In many fanfics I have read this concept, that John is relying on a unreliable Sherlock, because that's what makes him feel safe (Mycroft would say: the war). I think the concept is believable.

I really don't get the end of HLV. What does John feel about Sherlock's sacrifice? I want to know. Isn't he scared that Sherlock's caring goes as far as shooting people for him? And I don't want to compare it with ASIP, because it's different. Because Sherlock makes a declaration after shooting, and I think a very loud one in subtext. I don't think we have really heard John's answer yet.

Probably someone already said that somewhere, though...

Also, that's mainly true for the BBCsherlock. In canon I don't find that Watson has this need and the relationship hasn't got this dimension to it and the trust issues. That makes it more complicated even.
 

Last edited by Whisky (January 27, 2015 12:00 am)

Vhanja wrote:

(...) every now and then a scene comes up that I find really, really hard to explain in any other way than Johnlock. And John's jealousy in ASiB is one of them. It makes NO sense, no sense whatsoever, that a friend would act out of nothing but petty jealousy to see his friend flirting with a woman. No sense at all.

I don't know. When there is a strong sense of need in a friendship, it can happen. I know myself that I am capable of being jealous when good friends flirt or have boyfriends. That mostly happens when they fill up a space in my life that no other can fill. Because we share a hobby, a certain belief, just something I don't share with anyone else and no one else can provide. And then knowing that they spent so much time with someone else, I just become afraid they won't have the time for me anymore and I will come short on my needs. It's egoistic, but jealousy is a very egoistic thing imo. I think that can happen everytime when one of best friends enters a relationship. The focus shifts. And if the friendship is stable on both sides, it's all fine. But Sherlock and also Irene are very intense people, and I can totally understand the jealousy even in a friendship concept. Being with Irene would certainly keep Sherlock very entertained and busy and maybe he would become totally invested in Irene, and John would loose out. Would loose the man who anchors him, who has so much fun with. But is that automatically proof of romantic love? Isn't that just a jealous friend?
(I am not saying that I see that scene only in that way, I am just saying I find jealousy not automatically proof for romantic interest)
 

tonnaree wrote:

Whisky wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

I think if Sherlock ever does confess his non-platonic love for John that John will believe him.  Mainly because I think if the creators write that scene it will be like nothing Sherlock has ever done before.

I'm intrigued. Anything you have in mind? :-)
 

The things I have in mind are rated NC-17 for mature audiances only.  

And you are really that sure Sherlock hasn't done that kind of things before? :-P

so an announcement for a NC-17 rating for series 4 would be telling^^ hehe

I'll shut up.