BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

tonnaree · January 23, 2015 4:21 pm

SusiGo wrote:
This is good news:

http://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/stephen-frys-campaign-to-pardon-all-gay-men-ruined-by-malicious-law-9997777.html

Good people working on the side of the angels.

besleybean · January 23, 2015 5:14 pm

Stephen Fry rocks.

REReader · January 23, 2015 5:18 pm

besleybean wrote:
Stephen Fry rocks.

Indeed he does!

Liberty · January 23, 2015 6:31 pm

I got the impression from what Benedict said that the implant was meant to be a kinder alternative (to having to report for regular injections), but it was still in place after the "sentence" was finished (and after the time the injections would have stopped). Why wasn't it removed - was that explained?

SusiGo · January 23, 2015 6:36 pm

I have no idea where the story with the knife comes from. Hodges only mentions that Turing "had it taken out". He does not explain how and by whom. On the other hand I do not think that this is fictional because Benedict more than once talked about it in public. I suppose they had an additional source.

Last edited by SusiGo (January 23, 2015 6:37 pm)

miriel68 · January 24, 2015 7:48 am

It not something he would invent and both Moore and Benedict "did their research" so yes, I think it's truth.

It is interesting, isn't it, that of all historical inacuracies some critics (and some spectators) are complaining about the only true one regards the way they handled the burglary plot.

All the other poetic licenses are far less "poetic" that one would think: Denniston may have not been such an "obstacle" as in the film, but he represents true problems Turing had with authorities, the spy subplot foreshadows spy paranoia Turing has been caught into after being sentences etc. etc.

But as for the burglary they deliberately changed the story, since it was Alan who naively went to report it to the police even if his friends begged him not to do it. It speaks volumes about how candid he was about his believes and sexual orientation and also how far he was removed from the "real" world . It is a very interesting side of his character. Still, I am glad the film "cheated" about this point because it would have been extremely difficult to handle the whole thing without making him look like a fool. It was one of the motives I couldn't warm to Derek Jacobi in "Breaking the Code": he came out as such a pathetic idiot there.

Liberty · January 24, 2015 8:51 am

I didn't mind them changing this aspect in the film, but I don't think real life Turing was a fool. Not everybody was prosecuted. It was maybe a little naive of Turing, but he might have got lucky and the police might have investigated the burglary without too much questioning.

But I suppose that showing it truthfully would have been slightly at odds with the blackmail plot that they added - if Turing had already been threatened in that way, you'd expect him to be less forthcoming, maybe?

Funnily enough, they seemed to make the detective much more sympathetic in TIG. Alun Armstrong in Breaking the Code was absolutely horrible. But the Alun Armstrong character acted on information he'd been given, whereas the Rory Kinnear character insisted on pushing the issue and investigating. Both with the same outcome, but very different motivations.

Anyway, I agree that it's an interesting aspect of Turing's character. Personally, I find it endearing - it's something I really like about his story.

miriel68 · January 24, 2015 9:14 am

Turing dug his own grave so to speak: not only had he admitted to sexual intercourse with Murray but he had also written a detailed account of everything they did: even the police were surprised to be handed such a confession on a silver tray. At that point they were able to make not one but 8 charges against him and he had no chance to get away with this: Murray, in fact, only got a conditional, but Turing faced maximum sentence (2 years of prison) even if his collegues (included Hugh Alexander!) testified for him in the court.
The detective in TIG is much more sympathetic that the one in BtC because he has a different function: he stands for US, the audience, our conscience and our being often hasty in judging the people before we really know who they are.

SusiGo · January 24, 2015 9:41 am

I fully agree with you, miriel. It would have been very difficult to show this confession in the film. And I really do not like BTC very much because Jacobi is so very wrong for the part. Not only up to 30 years to old but wrong as a character.

And critics who enumerate the historical inaccuracies tend to forget that they may have a function within the story. Like foreshadowing the 1950's hysterical fear of communists in general and homosexual Soviet spies in particular.

Liberty · January 24, 2015 9:47 am

And also there's the way the Turing's story is told from the interrogation - I don't think that would have worked with a character like the Alun Armstrong one.

SusiGo · January 24, 2015 9:51 am

Yes, that is true. Using Nock to tell us about Turing is a clever means of revealing the story. And his being shocked at how Turing is treated by his police colleagues makes him very human because I also sense a certain disappointment there. He went out to catch a spy and now is presented with an "ordinary" homosexual. And yet he clearly knows that there is more to Turing and honestly wants to hear his story.

miriel68 · January 25, 2015 8:11 am

He is also aware that it was his own insistence that brought the downfall of Turing, so his storyline is a kind of memento for all of us not to judge people too hasty. And Rory Kinnear did a wonderful job (a usual) even if some bits of his part were eliminated in the final cut.

besleybean · January 25, 2015 8:51 am

He's a wonderful actor, like his father.

SusiGo · January 25, 2015 10:30 am

The whole cast is amazing.

miriel68 · January 25, 2015 1:01 pm

RK is an outstanding actor. He has everything... except for the face . Still, he managed to make me forget about his looks in Hamlet, he was so amazing.
But for me the actor number 2 in TIG was Mark Strong. He role could be easily reduced to mysterious-cynical-secret-agent stereotype, but he managed to make it frighteningly real mysterious-cynical-agent.

SusiGo · January 25, 2015 1:03 pm

Yes, Mark Strong is awesome as Menzies. I would put him and Alex Lawther on no. 2.

gently69 · January 25, 2015 1:15 pm

Alex Lawther was absolutely sweet in that SAG Q&A. Exactly like the young Turing he played.

tonnaree · January 25, 2015 1:28 pm

I"ve always enjoyed Mark Strong and I really need to watch the SAG Q&A.

Eager to see young Lawther in other roles.

Liberty · January 25, 2015 1:53 pm

He's in X plus Y which will be out shortly. Not the main role, though, but you can see him briefly in the trailer. I was really looking forward to it anyway, but even more now that I know he's in it. Playing one of the maths geniuses, I believe! Looks like he's getting typecast already!

besleybean · January 25, 2015 3:20 pm

Wow, what a typecast!