The spy subplot worked on so many levels: it was useful not only to the Bletchley Park segment, but also to the Manchester subplot: for the people who go to see the film not so well informed as us the whole cundrum with missing classified documents and the suspicious behaviour of Turing is not immediately clear. Also, initial Nock's suspicions about T. being a spy are put in a context (how many people know what the Cambridge spies affair was all about, especially abroad?).

You are right, Liberty, not everyone was homophobic even in these times - and for Turing they made it clear that he is not "ashamed" of his being gay - but one the other hand this the point the film wants to make: how much damage "official" homophobia and sex prejudice could do the the individuals and society.
You can see it in the Manchester segment: Nock is a decent guy who was only investigating Turing because he thought he was really a spy, but his superior officer and his collaborators are only too happy to arrest Turing just because they can - they do not care whether it is fair or not, it feels good to "show" a university professor that they have power over him.

miriel68 wrote:

The spy subplot worked on so many levels: it was useful not only to the Bletchley Park segment, but also to the Manchester subplot: for the people who go to see the film not so well informed as us the whole cundrum with missing classified documents and the suspicious behaviour of Turing is not immediately clear. Also, initial Nock's suspicions about T. being a spy are put in a context (how many people know what the Cambridge spies affair was all about, especially abroad?).

You are right, Liberty, not everyone was homophobic even in these times - and for Turing they made it clear that he is not "ashamed" of his being gay - but one the other hand this the point the film wants to make: how much damage "official" homophobia and sex prejudice could do the the individuals and society.
You can see it in the Manchester segment: Nock is a decent guy who was only investigating Turing because he thought he was really a spy, but his superior officer and his collaborators are only too happy to arrest Turing just because they can - they do not care whether it is fair or not, it feels good to "show" a university professor that they have power over him.

Well said. And I think the fact that some of the people close to Turing did not mind his being gay while large parts of society and law enforcement authorities discriminated homosexuals is made clear and authentic. Of course Cairncross later on blackmails him in order to protect himself from being revealed as a spy but even before seems very much at ease with him, is even friendly. And of course we get Joan who suspects that he is gay and yet loves him and wants to marry him. 

And some thoughts about the end:

I think the ending is perfect (so much better than an earlier draft of the script I once read).

Alan sitting in his chair reading the book about codes and ciphers Christopher once gave to him. Putting the book away, looking at his machine, and switching off the light. And going into the dark instead of remaining in the brightness of the living-room. This is all I need to see at this point. Not the apple, not the glass, not his dead body. 

And then the bonfire scene with its sense of comradeship and triumph and farewell. But the very last image is Alan’s wistful face lighted by the flames before we read about his death. 
 

Last edited by SusiGo (January 11, 2015 11:44 am)

Sob.

SusiGo wrote:

I think the ending is perfect (so much better than an earlier draft of the script I once read).

 

The last scene between him and Keira was perfect, because it told us all about Alan's fate without going into gory detail. Keira was wonderful there, her face expressing the growing horror as she realizes gradually all the damage that has been done to Alan's body and mind. I could hear audience "going there" with her, as appealed as she was. To show him dead would be simply superfluous.
 

I have read many (far too many!) reviews of TIG and after having seen the film myself, my opinion about their professionalism and film knowledge sank even low (was never very high). Their whining about not having a sex scene in the film or how they should have ended the film with Turing's suicide shows a complete lack of understandig of the dynamics of cinematographic narration.

On the contrary, I have found only one (!) critic among dozens pointing out a true weak or contradictory point of the plot, which for me is rather obvious, even if I am not unduly bothered by it.

Thank you. I had a look at it and found at least one scene that is not in the released film - finding Alan's body and the apple. And I think they left out the part about the apple in end titles as well. Maybe this is a late but not the definite version. I seem to remember Benedict said they filmed the scene but decided to leave it out of the film. 

Only to sit there crying into your hankie … 

I am not 100% sure if Benedict said they filmed it and decided not to include it or if they excluded it from the beginning. But I know he said that it did not feel right to them to end the film with that scene. 

Finally I managed to watch TIG, twice at the same day , and because I promised Susi and Solar to write something in this thread I’ll try to find the right words.

Here they are: Excellent, heart-warming, heart-breaking,  entertaining, funny, sad ... and I would certainly find some more words if I keep on thinking.

Of course Benedict‘s convincing acting did a lot for this film. How he is able to transport emotions, how he “becomes” another person, is amazing. Once again I couldn’t spot any of the other characters he played. Only in one scene I had to think of Sherlock ... the way he emphasised the K.

I was very satisfied how the story was told. And my concerns that the flashbacks will be a bit of a chaos were unfounded. The start in this interrogation room to Alan’s home when he had that burglary, back to the time at Bletchley Park, further back to school and vice versa ... all that perfectly matched and didn’t disturb the flow of the film.
The settings were brilliant, the atmosphere was fitting. And the rest of the cast did convince me as well.
I just hope Morten Tyldum will get an Oscar nomination. He really deserves it.

The most impressive moments in this film for me:
After they were successful with Enigma to decide who should stay alive and who should die, gives me an unpleasant feeling.
And to get the disturbing impression how this punishment of chemical castration could destroy a man mentally and physically. Unbelievable how thousands of gay men had to suffer.

Well, what can I say, Benedict didn’t disappoint me ... once again

Last edited by gently69 (January 15, 2015 1:16 pm)

gently69 wrote:

The most impressive moments in this film for me:
After they were successful with Enigma to decide who should stay alive and who should die, gives me an unpleasant feeling.

Oh yes, absolutely. They finally achieved their goal - but that's not it. Now there is another conflict, and it's great to watch those wonderful actors in that process of realising that even after breaking Enigma things will stay complicated. And I love the fact that Joan almost immediately understands what Alan is trying to say, while it takes the men a bit longer to get it.

 

Last edited by SolarSystem (January 15, 2015 2:07 pm)

Thanks for pointing out that pattern, Susi.  I hadn't noticed that, but I can see it now you give the examples.