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January 6, 2015 11:17 am  #1601


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

SusiGo wrote:

And when have we ever seen Mary give in to John's needs? For honesty, for example? 
 

Two things come to mind:

- Getting him and Sherlock to start working again
- Stepping away and giving him the peace he needed until he was ready to approach her, even while she was pregnant and it took several months


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January 6, 2015 11:19 am  #1602


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Vhanja: Where do we see this?

Last edited by SusiGo (January 6, 2015 11:19 am)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
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January 6, 2015 11:21 am  #1603


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

SusiGo: See what? She is the one who pushes Sherlock and John to go on a case each other, because they both want it and Sherlock is scared they won't be able to do that anymore. That is the opposite of being selfish, as that would mean John would spend less time with her.

And as she states "Months of silence and now this?" seems to me they haven't spoken to each other for several months.

What it also boils down to for me is that John decided to marry her and be with her. John has been around the block a few times, I don't think he is the kind of guy who would stay in a bad relationship. If John is happpy with her, then he is.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

January 6, 2015 11:22 am  #1604


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Mary telling both boys to run the other...
The fact that John obviously hadn't spoken to Mary for 6 months and she hadn't pestered him, until he was ready


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January 6, 2015 11:28 am  #1605


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Thing is: With Sarah there isn't a doubt that she didn't have some sort of hidden agenda. She certainly meant everything she said.
With Mary... not so much. At this point I have no idea which of her actions and words were real and which weren't. She is a liar, Mary Morstan is not even her real name, and right now I basically don't believe fu** when it comes to her. I hope this will change asap during the Special, because just like Sherlock I hate not knowing. But to me everything about her could very well just be part of her facade, of a plan, of a hidden agenda - and I'm not saying it has to be her hidden agenda, I'm just saying that I don't know and I don't trust her.


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"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

January 6, 2015 11:31 am  #1606


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I don't know what they're going to deal with in the special...
But I trust Mary at the moment


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January 6, 2015 11:39 am  #1607


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

As I see it, everything we have seen with Mary is her true personality. Only thing she has done was hide her past from John, I don't see har has having changed her personality for him.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

January 6, 2015 11:41 am  #1608


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Swanpride wrote:

Occations at which Mary shows how much she cares for John? First her anger towards Sherlock over what he did to John and then, after she realized that Sherlock is really clueless, encouraging John to forgive him. Risking to blow her cover twice for John's sake. Being ready to allow John to run with Sherlock but not being ready to allow him to run on his own into danger. Asking if John is around the moment Sherlock turns up in Magnussen's office and basing her whole decisions on that information. Doing whatever John and Sherlock request of her in order to earn their forgiveness, despite risking prison or death by staying in England.

There are also a lot of small things and gestures. I never doubted for one moment that those two are utterly smitten with each other.

Much of this is based on speculation. We do not know what John and Sherlock request of her, not even if they request anything of her. There is a big gaping hole between the 221b scene and Christmas and we can only speculate what happened in the meantime. Therefore I tend to base my opinions on what I really see and hear and not on what might have happened or not. 

 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

January 6, 2015 12:03 pm  #1609


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

tykobrian wrote:

Guys, when Sherlock said in HLV Mary acquired the name Mary Morstan what did he mean? Like did she somehow legally change her name to Morstan and made new papers like drivers license and such? How easy is it to do so? I suppose it was easier when she was supposedly a government intelligence officer because the they'd arrange that for her. But as a freelance assasin can she do that so easily, completely change her identy? I really have no practical knowledge in these matters. Love to hear what are the ways in your respective countries. This thing popped in my mind when one of my friends told me that if during the registration process of John and Mary's wedding it's revealed that Mary Morstan is an alias their marriage woul've been void. So I guess Mary didn't half-ass her identity change?

It's very easy to change your name in the UK, but I think they meant that Mary had created a whole false identity, using a deceased baby's details.  She would have a genuine birth certificate and could fake everything else (or pay somebody to do it for her). 

 

January 6, 2015 1:07 pm  #1610


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Somebody in the secret service?!


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January 6, 2015 4:02 pm  #1611


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Or someone doing it illegally. Again, both ways are possible.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

January 6, 2015 5:20 pm  #1612


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Yes, he confirms that it was a stillborn baby.  To be honest, I'd have thought that there were more high-tech ways of finding suitable identities than walking round graveyards, reading gravestones.   But apparently that's what she did. 

 

January 6, 2015 5:35 pm  #1613


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I thought they just meant she got it from the deaths column of a newspaper


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January 6, 2015 6:10 pm  #1614


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Swanpride wrote:

Sherlock says that she took the name from a grave, so I guess it's the ususal method of overtaking the identity of a someone who died already, preferable a baby.


You make it sound like people do it everyday.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

January 6, 2015 6:14 pm  #1615


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Tee Hee.


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January 6, 2015 6:46 pm  #1616


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

He seems to imply she got it directly from the graveyard.

(From Arianne de Vere) Mary Morstan was stillborn in October 1972. Her gravestone is in Chiswick Cemetery where – five years ago – you acquired her name and date of birth and thereafter her identity.

I kind of like the ghoulishness of it! 

I don't know about "usual", but using dead babies' birth certificates is certainly a way I've heard of making false identities (more than once, both in fiction and real life, I think).   Maybe it's the best-known way?

Last edited by Liberty (January 6, 2015 8:08 pm)

 

January 6, 2015 7:27 pm  #1617


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

She would probably also need someone professional to manipulate the official records of baby Mary´s death, or else she wouldn´t get access to the health care system, tax system and so on just with her (faked) birth certificate..

 

January 6, 2015 7:28 pm  #1618


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Dear Jim ...


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

January 6, 2015 7:32 pm  #1619


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Or Mycroft … (not my preferred theory but there is something strange about those two)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

January 6, 2015 7:34 pm  #1620


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

It is REALLY odd that he has hardly referenced her...
Did he hire her?


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