Vhanja wrote:

nakahara wrote:

My theory on this: Sherlock knows that John is secretly seeing Mycroft behind his back (he can certainly deduce such simple thing, John is usually an open book to him). Now, if he let him know about Irene´s survival, Mycroft (who as we know is even better at decuction) would know about Irene in no time. And that would blow her cover and put her in danger anew, turning all Sherlock´s effort to save her to naught.

If he wants to keep her safe, he can´t tell John anything, no matter how much he loves him and relies on him.
 

I'm not necessarily talking about telling him that Irene is alive towards the end. I'm talking more about Sherlock's own conflicting feelings towards Irene in general. He was clearly in pain when she was supposedly dead, which must have opened a flurry of emotions when she returned and was alive after all. John cancels his Christmas plans with Harry, breaks up with his girlfriend (or: she breaks up with him), tries several times to ask Sherlock how he is doing - and he gets nothing in return but pouty snarks and total silence. 

 

Hmm, I see what you mean.

Well, Sherlock is from the very start written as a character who doesn´t like to speak about things that bother or hurt him - maybe to not loose his aura of superiority and detachment, maybe to not loose face, maybe out of fear that people would not give him support but would laugh at him.

So we have scenes like:
In ASiP: he almost swallowed a poisoned pill, but when John calls him on it, he speaks around the subject, downplaying the danger he was in.
In TBB: he is practically strangled, doesn´t tell a word about it to John.
In SiB: precisely his interactions with Irene that bother him, but he doesn´t tell John about it.
In THoB: "I don´t have ffffriends!" (when his poor condition and fear are pointed out to him)
In TRF: keeps mum about the whole danger he faces from Moriarty.
in TEH: no word to John about Serbia torture.
In TSoT: no word about his internal turmoil and pain caused by John´s marriage.
In HLV: at the begginning refusing to acknowledge that his separation from John hurts him, when shot, downplays the risks and makes a "surgery" out of it, when sent into exile, keeping mum about his imminent death...

As you see, this is an established side of his character and you can hate it or take it.

I would await from John, since he knows Sherlock so well, that he would see through this false bravado and offers Sherlock support which Sherlock is not able to ask for directly.
 

Last edited by nakahara (December 30, 2014 5:59 pm)

I have to admit, there is one thing that bothers me about this show, and that is the way John is constantly treated badly from Sherlock. Yes, Sherlock does some fairly epic heroic things, and TSoT is awesome, but throughout everything else he is almost nothing but condescending, impatient, snarky, sarcastic, horrible or giving him the silent treatment.

Sometimes I wonder why in hec John puts up with him at all. 

Well, it's hard to be a true friend when you're constantly treated like crap.

Liberty wrote:

nakahara wrote:

Well, that blogger usually is sarcastic, but without any malicious intent, so I don´t see her as particulary rude - if you look past her sarcasm, she just wanted to point out that Benedict´s words are indeed quite contradictory. Not only he declares Sherlock asexual and non-asexual in one breath, but I´m still scratching my head over his puzzling declaration that Sherlock "can´t beat woman´s intuition". Huh?
 

It might be a reference to Irene in particular - she seems to work (very well) on intuition rather than deduction. (Although I bet Irene does a fair bit of straightforward deduction too). 

I think the first "asexual" has the meaning of "not interested in sex/not wanting to be sexually active" (people do use the word this way sometimes, and I've heard it used a lot about Sherlock).   The second use of "asexual" seems to mean "lacking all sexual desire" (the more common use).  He explains the first as soon as he says it - he doesn't want it and it's purposeful.  Yes, it would be bad writing if this was an essay, but I imagine when he's interviewed he's having to say things on the spot - I think he's very good at it, and people could just listen/read to get his meaning rather than criticising. 

Sarcasm can be funny (and quite British, I suppose), but it's also kind of unpleasant, especially when directed at somebody like this.  (I'd find it rude if somebody was talking like that about me!). 

I thought that the motion about women possessing some mysterious intuition which leads them into things where men are lead by logic and rational reasoning is a bit... discredited by now. I´m surprised to hear that out of Benedict´s mouth. Personally i saw Irene as quite rational and straighforwardly intelligent, not possessing some mysterious "magic-female" qualities.

Well, the inflated version of Benedict´s speech this blogger created might be rude, I admit (and she maybe deliberately misundestood his message) - but at least she didn´t call him "Cumberfuck" and the like, as his Twitter friends.

Vhanja wrote:

besleybean wrote:

God I hope we're not going to see the steamy night in Karachi!

I would've expected that you would like to see it, shutting up Johnlockers everywhere. ;)
 

And why would that shut Johnlockers up? Because you cannot have sex with a woman while being hopelessly in love with a man? Because you cannot enjoy both genders? Because ... Sorry, I am running out of irony. 

Schmiezi wrote:

And why would that shut Johnlockers up? Because you cannot have sex with a woman while being hopelessly in love with a man? Because you cannot enjoy both genders? Because ... Sorry, I am running out of irony. 

It was meant as a joke from a fellow Johnlocker. 
 

Vhanja wrote:

nakahara wrote:

I think many occassions whre he "treats John badly" are generally caused by Sherlock´s inability to honestly admit to his weaknessess, which makes him solve things deviously and not with open-hearted-sincerity.

Still, I think, John sees many benefits in their friendship and he genuinely likes Sherlock´s complicated character (maybe because he loves precisely this - his surprising unpredictability and excitement it brings to him). Otherwise he would leave him a long time ago - he is not held in Baker Street by chains.  

Yeah, and that brings me back to the discussion about being "henpecked" (was that the term?) I don't think John is the type to be henpecked by anyone, but if he IS, it's not by Mary.
 

Of course, that was just how I saw these interactions between John and Mary. 

I saw something similar among my own relatives and it ended quite badly for the husband. Therefore it rang a bell to me - but of course, that may be a pure coincidence. 
 

besleybean wrote:

God I hope we're not going to see the steamy night in Karachi!

Much as I would love to see any steamy night scene involving Benedict, I have to reluctantly agree.  It's in his head canon, not mine.  

(Apart from the fact that he doesn't do sex by choice, he's had it confirmed that "love is a dangerous disadvantage".  I don't think he'd take the risk). 
 

Liberty wrote:

He should probably have just used the word "intuition" rather than "women's intuition" (and "celibate" instead of the first "asexual), but again - he's talking rather than writing and I can forgive some mistakes.   He is talking about women, after all, AND we get to see the woman he's attracted to (if we go by Benedict's take) seemingly using intuition, and winning.   I agree about Irene's intuition, though - it's a form of deduction.  She has to be picking up on people's responses and coming to conclusions even if she doesn't do it in the mindpalace/memory sort of way that we see Sherlock do.  (She doesn't need to take his pulse to know that his interest is genuine, and to use that against him - she's picking up on things that other people might miss, and deliberately playing games in an individually tailored way.  "I knew what he liked" can't just be about some special mindpower, but I think is about being able to see through people - whether you call that intuition or deduction).   We also see her doing some straightforward deduction - but she gives the impression of being slightly out of her usual territory there.

(I don't know how Benedict reacts to his friends messages, but they don't come across as critical.  Hopefully they know him well enough to judge what he'd be offended by and what he'd just laugh at).

Well, you are probably right and it´s pointless to dwell on this too long. I don´t think myself Benedict intended any harm with this. Althrough I would like to see something more profound on Sherlock from him one day (does not have "Chronicles" yet - maybe there´s something in the book?)
 

Must buy it finally.