This is a bit late, but Nakahara posted this over on the Johnlock thread and I thought it was such a great illustration of making jealousy obvious - we'd talked about the scene between John and Janine and how Moftiss had said clearly that they refilmed to make John less jealous, and we talked about how John could have appeared more jealous ... well, here it is .  (Not John, but Sherlock, but I think Benedict does a great job here, even without the writing to back it up).  (Although, in my case, I don't think the jealousy is sexual here, as Sholto isn't presented as a lover - it seems to be about him having had a similar position to Sherlock in John's life.  I suppose he was a kind of trial run!)

nakahara wrote:

Sherlock is definitely into Irene Adler, oh yeah!

Another point about what the writers/actors say - I feel that it's talked about here as if what they say is at odds with what we see on screen.   But often it isn't.  I don't see John and Sherlock being sexually attracted on screen - I know some of you do - but for me, I don't have to choose between the writers/actors views and what I see.   They coincide.  (That isn't the case for everything they say, so I'm in the same position as you with some other aspects). 

I've been thinking a lot about the Guardian article Susigo posted about the "gay jokes" being a reference to The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and what that meant.  I think they do highlight the difference in reactions between now and then - Watson in Private Life was worried about public disgrace, losing his army pension, etc. if they were thought to be a gay couple.  There was a genuine risk.  Whereas now, it's just not an issue, and the scenes reflect that. 

In Private Life, Watson establishes that being gay is not acceptable to him for this reason, and almost pleads with Holmes to reassure him that he isn't (which Holmes won't do).   There's no similar scene in BBC Sherlock, but there is the restaurant scene in ASIP, where John makes it clear from the beginning that being gay IS acceptable (and again, Sherlock doesn't enlighten him either way!).  After that, there couldn't be a scene like the one in Private Life, because they've both established their views on homosexuality.  And later, if Sherlock wanted to pretend he and John were a gay couple for a case, it wouldn't be a problem - people tend to think they are anyway (John's protestations seem to be about the inaccuracy, rather than any fear of disgrace, etc. - and Sherlock sees that too in the restaurant scene).   The restaurant scene in ASIP kind of precludes the (matching?) Private Life scene - so it looks as if they made the decision not to replicate that quite early on. 


 

As I wrote in the other thread, this scene is written and acted as pure jealousy. It is more or less flat out stated in the scene itself. I also think the jealousy comes from Sherlock for the first time seeing John having a close friendship with another unsociable and reclusive man. I still find it endearing.

There is also a hint of jealousy from John to Irene and Sherlock, something I struggle a bit more with understanding.

"Hamish. John Hamish Watson. Just... if you're looking for baby names."

Why would he mind if Sherlock seemed attracted to a woman?

Last edited by Vhanja (December 30, 2014 10:56 am)

I think there's an element of feeling excluded in that scene with Irene, while those two are openly appreciating each other as if he isn't in the room!  (Have you ever played gooseberry while your friend and his/her potential lover only have eyes for each other?  It's not fun ).  And also just that he's the one who goes for women whereas Sherlock is apparently different - I think it's a little galling to see Sherlock getting the attention and "flirting" back (I think there's also a little bit of that in the first scene with Irene too - but it goes more the other way - Sherlock trying to focus Irene's attention on him rather than John).   But generally, John is quite understanding about Sherlock's relationship with Irene and worries about his feelings for her in a concerned way - it's just the flaunting in front of him that he objects to, I think.

I agree about the scene with Sholto, Vhanja. I think Sherlock almost seems a little childlike.  It's one of the scenes where he seems to be behind in some aspects of his emotional development, maybe.   Anyway, John is HIS first - I think he's never had a relationship like that before.

Last edited by Liberty (December 30, 2014 11:10 am)

Not quite sure where to put this, but this made me laugh:

http://loudest-subtext-in-television.tumblr.com/post/106566374084/constancecream-the-wit-and-wisdom-of-benedict

John is hinting that Sherlock and Irene  are going to end up producing a child together, who John would like named after him.

You do realise that jealousy does answer all these questions, do you? And I suppose you do not count the text messages your friends receive either. 

John is only an interested party, that's all.

But when he suspects Sherlock does have feelings for Irene, John is concerned, not jealous.  I think John comes out very well in this episode. 

After all, if he did have those sort of feeling towards Sherlock, it would be beyond creepy for him to act openly jealous here.   He blatantly dates other women in front of Sherlock, and the first time Sherlock shows a flicker of interest he is possessive?

Yes interesting that the only woman who stays around, comes on the scene when Sherlock is away...but then they like each other!

I don't really expect him to be an expert, he doesn't really consider Sherlock to be either.