BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

tobeornot221b · December 22, 2014 8:02 pm

I get the impression that Mark's statements are meant to be a sort of denial of Benedict's recent hints about Sherlock being possibly gay.
Just a means to take off the pressure and excitement of the fandom. A bit at least.
As for me, nothing has changed.
Nice try, Mark!

nakahara · December 22, 2014 8:08 pm

Because when you remove the relationship (with its provocative innuendos of double meanings) from the show and retain Mary, baby, a dog and such stuff, what do you get? Eastenders 2 - The Watsons.

Cannot really see Sherlock´s and John´s relationship functioning in the presence of such things. That exactly why Arthur Conan Doyle got rid of such elements as soon as he could.

Sherlock + John ´would mean a conventional love story? Oh, how lucky then that we have such an unconventional heterosexual marriage in the show already. Can´t remember the last time a movie or Tv series featured a heterosexual love story - it´s highly unusual in a homonormative society we live in.

besleybean · December 22, 2014 8:09 pm

I actually find it very sad that people will not take Mark at his word.
He is a highly intelligent and eloquent man and I almost see it as disloyal to not take him seriously.
Why are people always looking for conspiracies?
You know just sometimes, people do actually say what they mean.
Do some think they know better than Mark does?

Harriet · December 22, 2014 8:10 pm

Yes, poor Mark - I guess he will go home now and sob at Ian's shoulder.

tobeornot221b · December 22, 2014 8:12 pm

besleybean wrote:
I actually find it very sad that people will not take Mark at his word.

How often do Mark and Steven tell us that they are lying - constantly?

besleybean · December 22, 2014 8:15 pm

Mark specifically states here he is being serious.
Please believe him.

Liberty · December 22, 2014 8:17 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:
I get the impression that Mark's statements are meant to be a sort of denial of Benedict's recent hints about Sherlock being possibly gay.
Just a means to take off the pressure and excitement of the fandom. A bit at least.
As for me, nothing has changed.
Nice try, Mark!

He doesn't actually say whether Sherlock is gay or not - just that he's not interested in that side of things. It would be quite possible for Sherlock to be gay and still celibate, and I don't think they've said anything really definite about his sexual orientation. (It would also be possible for both to be gay and not feel that way about each other, come to that! But I think that, living together - these things tend to arise!).

tobeornot221b · December 22, 2014 8:18 pm

besleybean wrote:
Mark specifically states here he is being serious.
Please believe him.

I do believe the evidence of my own eyes and ears.

besleybean · December 22, 2014 8:21 pm

It is always possible it is the projection of one's own wishes upon somebody else's vision.
Let us all claim our own visions, but not impose our demands on others..
Any anyway, why aren't you believing Mark then?
AND again, some of us do see what the team say they are showing.

Last edited by besleybean (December 22, 2014 8:24 pm)

nakahara · December 22, 2014 8:23 pm

Yes, we fans are stupid - why are we doubting such a truthful people?

“Anything is possible.

But we do our best to surprise you with a combination of lies and deceit.

So, we’re never going to tell you what we’re going to do.”
—
Steven Moffat, when asked about upcoming stories in S4 and S5.

XXXXX

“QUESTION: What is your opinion (if any) on Sherlock’s sexuality? Does it matter, or is it irrelevant to you as writers?

GATISS/MOFFAT:Sherlock lives in his brain — everything else is transport.

Unless we’re lying.

Again.”
—
Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat

XXXXX

“INTERVIEWER: So what did you say to Steven and Mark after you read the [Mary] twist?

ABBINGTON: I texted them, 'You bastards.' It was brilliant. I was so happy.

INTERVIEWER: I feel like Steven lives for people saying, ‘You bastard’ to him in that way.

ABBINGTON: He does. He loves that. That’s why he brought Moriarty back after he said in interviews, 'Moriarty’s dead, okay? He’s dead.'

And here’s Moriarty in the finale saying, 'I’m back. Did you miss me?'”
—
Amanda Abbington, after the first airing of His Last Vow.

Harriet · December 22, 2014 8:23 pm

bb: This might apply to you as well. Asexual Sherlock, a good example.

Last edited by Harriet (December 22, 2014 8:24 pm)

Schmiezi · December 22, 2014 8:25 pm

besleybean wrote:
He is a highly intelligent and eloquent man and I almost see it as disloyal to not take him seriously.

Actually, I admire Moftiss' troll-ness. They can only keep it up because they are both highly intelligent and eloquent.
Me still believing Johnlock will happen has nothing to do with being "disloyal" but rather with adoration.

Schmiezi · December 22, 2014 8:27 pm

Nakahara, thank you soooo much for your post. It could be quoted regularly from now on.

besleybean · December 22, 2014 8:28 pm

To be fair, I have always been happy to admit when I was wrong.
I was wrong about the possibility of Sherlock being a murderer.
I have consistantly stated that Benedict and Steven both have different views on Sherlock's sexuality to me and I have to accept hat they know better than me.
Mark's view on this interview is closer to my own.
None of their quotes contradict, thay are just different aspects.

Schmiezi. adoration of Sherlock and John, but presumably not the BBC portrayal of them?

Last edited by besleybean (December 22, 2014 8:31 pm)

Harriet · December 22, 2014 8:33 pm

Well, BBC3 is quite clear already

besleybean · December 22, 2014 8:34 pm

Oh and they know better than the Sherlock team too?

Harriet · December 22, 2014 8:36 pm

No, they are just going ahead

Schmiezi · December 22, 2014 8:37 pm

besleybean wrote:
Oh and they know better than the Sherlock team too?

No.

But they are more honest.

nakahara · December 22, 2014 8:43 pm

"Lies and deceit" - you have it from the mouth of Steven Moffat himself, besley.

besleybean · December 22, 2014 8:52 pm

Oh for goodnes sake.
Watch and listen to what Mark says.
You can believe what you like.
It is plain for all to see.
You know sometimes they joke, sometimes they are serious(Mark says he is here)
Just what have they lied to us about with Sherlock?

Last edited by besleybean (December 22, 2014 8:53 pm)