I think I used the wrong word. My point was more that if Mary dies in the special, and Ep 1 of S4 is set a couple of years later, it's like the Mary arc never happened and we're back where the series started - the two boys in 221B.

For some reason, I thought Amanda was in S4, but I don't know where I got that idea from.   (And even if she is, I suppose she could still die in the special and be in a flashback/mind palace scene in S4).

silverblaze wrote:

They specifically said that  they wouldn't kill her offscreen like Doyle did. They also said that it isn't entirely clear that Mary really dies in canon. I think Amanda is gonna be in it, whether her character dies or not. 

Well, she was at the "reading" and did just tweet about bleaching her hair.

I don't see room in the Sherlock show for any baby or Mary ...they have served the purpose and just need an exit..what more could they possibly add to our knowledge of Sherlock?
We saw Sherlock with a child...coping with Johns wife and various girlfriends...as a best man...trying to keep Johns marriage together after the betrayal...Sherlock with others...and how Sherlock was apart from John...
Married John and Sherlock without John is done?


That storyline doesn't have legs.

Oh I just realised that I consider the special s4 and the three episodes after that s5, and everyone else says 'special' and s4. Sorry, I misunderstood. So the question is whether Mary and the baby will disappear in the special or later. Interesting. The special would be a good place to kill a major character, but then, last time we predicted Mary would die, she lived, so maybe they won't kill her, just because everyone expects them to kill her. 

I agree with Lola that there can very well be a baby storyline, I mean, they normally write about a time traveling space alien, surely a baby would be within their capabilities. They also said they've diverted quite a bit from canon this time but I don't think they'll go off rails, they always say that they really love the canon. I'm actually really interested in what villains they will trot out. I'm already in love with Baron Gruner, but this is getting a bit off topic. 

Did they get rid of the the baby in the space-travelling alien story? Amy's baby we're talking about? Because as far as I know she's got a huge storyline, written in reverse. Very clever and very sci-fi. 

Well, I don't want to spoil too much (although I suppose anybody who wants to see it now has seen it - we're going back a bit!), but you're thinking of the adult.   The baby essentially disappears from our screens, if I remember.   We do get a fake baby for a short while, and mentions of the baby as a child, but the parents are not involved.    Obviously time travelling shenanigans made that a possible plot twist in that show, but it would be possible to do something similar (abduction, etc.) in Sherlock that would take the baby out of the story too.

Possibly too dark (for me, anyway), but there's also the possibility of puerperal psychosis and infanticide/suicide.  I don't know if there were any ACD stories about this but it was a recognised phenomenon at the time, and I'm sure he'd have been aware of it.   It's not a very Sherlock sort of story, but it is something that springs to mind as a way to remove a mother and baby.  

I just realised for myself, I personally don't mind Mary at all, just the baby. I just tried to take the baby out of the equation, and found that I'm immediatly fine with having Mary around for a bit longer. And what worries me about the pregnancy is not really that Mary and John will go away and live happy family life without Sherlock, but how being a parent will change John. John has been with Mary, and he has been on cases with Sherlock, and there are ways this could work, for quite a while in my opinion (for a few episodes, even series). I just can't see how John would do the same if he had a child. It's not only a child at home, a child somewhere with Mary, but I would guess if it was his own child, he would stop being so reckless, and maybe be more concerned about many things going on, no matter how often he saw his child, no matter if Mary took it away. John seems to me this kind of person. No matter how fond John is of Sherlock, and how much Mary understands his need to go on dangerous cases, a child would change the dynamics - but Mary is just one of two there. I don't dislike the idea of Mary staying for longer, I just dislike the idea of John changing in character I think. If they're going to put a baby into the show, then the main focus will be on the impact on John, I suppose. Mary isn't a main character of the show (althouth she has become an important one). And then I just wonder... what do they want to do with John? Where do they want to lead him character-wise? And Mary isn't that important for answering that question maybe. And then I wonder, why make a decision that will have impact on John, if the show is called Sherlock? It comes back to a baby being just another of John's pressure points, and therefore Sherlock's, and... I just don't know. On the other hand, I loved the realisation with the pressure points, but I don't want to see the same thing again. I just cannot imagine another series completely filled with character development and changing loyalities and trouble in relationships. Series three was great, but I wonder what new direction would be there to explore. And the baby brings me back to relationship trouble, and we had that already... that's what I don't like about it.
If they didn't introduce the pregnancy in such a way at the very end of an episode, I would have maybe never thought about it twice. But the announcement felt like it had meaning. And I just don't get that.
I'm just trying to sort my thoughts...
 

Last edited by Whisky (December 21, 2014 11:17 pm)

Swanpride wrote:

(I just had a thought...I wouldn't put it past John to force Mycroft to babysit when he is suddenly faced with an emergency situation).

Well, he did babysit his parents at Les Mis. But I do find the thought of leaving a baby in the care of somebody who doesn't want to look after a baby kind of disturbing (even though I know it happens all the time!).