BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Let us start with the assumption Sherlock DID plan his 'death'

kazza474 · July 18, 2012 5:16 am

(I know some people believe he didn't plan to jump, so those ideas can be discussed elsewhere please.)

So WHY did Sherlock decide to arrange his 'death/suicide'? What did he hope it would achieve or allow him to do?
Now here I will be utterly boring for some of you, but let us turn back to the canon.

In the canon, Sherlock used his 'death' to divide & conquer the Moriarty web. He wanted to go 'underground' and pick off one by one, the evil threats that abounded in that web.He succeeded.

Now back to BBC Sherlock.
The evidence we saw of the Moriarty web was not so much a gang of criminals (yes he said he had people working for him, but we really only saw a few snipers) and yes those criminals had to be negated. But we also saw that his web included a lot of spun yarns regarding Sherlock's identity.

I am thinking that Sherlock decided he needed to be dead so that he could, as he had said earlier, use the time to unravel the identity thread. To remove Rich Brook from the records and to re-instate Moriarty, as well as to re-instate his own correct image to show that he couldn't possibly have set up the crimes of which he was accused of.
Changing records takes time. Any changes noticed may be investigated. If Sherlock was assumed dead, no-one would be looking at him. A dead man cannot use a computer that is hiding online behind all the new fangled ways they do that these days. (See? I don't profess to know how EVERYTHING works, I just know that it does happen, lol)
Besides, with Sherlock dead, would anyone really be looking into those records much anymore? They've decided he was the evil force behind these crimes & so they would be happy it was all cut & dried & would leave it alone.

Yes, he possibly spends time eliminating the criminals that he finds connected to Moriaty, but I believe the 'web' of Morarty includes much more than just people.

hypergreenfrog · July 18, 2012 3:42 pm

I think you have a very valid point here.
Sherlock pursuing the men behind Moriarty across Europe and eliminating them one by one in the canon could well be replaced with Sherlock "eliminating" the sources that caused his fall from grace in the media and public perception in the BBC series.
I said in the thread about the Holmes brothers' relationship that successfully modernizing the world of Sherlock Holmes does not stop at introducing mobile phones and DNA samples. It should also embrace how society has changes since the Victorian era. That includes all sorts of different aspects we have discussed here, from family relationships to cocaine and smoking, and it can definitely also include the idea that today's criminals work through different channels such as the media.

Killing someone's public identity and image is a highly effective way to get rid of an unwanted person, and extremely hard to trace back to its original source. In Sherlock's case, of course he knows the source, but he doesn't know how many people are involved or influenced by Moriarty, so the chase should keep him busy for a good while. Definitely comparable to tracking down all the killers back in the day.

Davina · July 18, 2012 5:11 pm

Also remember, however! that some of these people ARE killers. They were responsible for shooting General Shan in TBB, the blind old lady in TGG and the subsequent explosion that killed 12 other innocents. One would have been guilty of the kidnap and poisoning of the children in TRF. They would have helped, indirectly, to kill Connie Prince and the cabbie's victims by supplying the poison-Jim never dirties his own hands remember. The Golum is still at large as well isn't he? Have I missed anything out? Moriarty was the spider at the centre of a criminal web, this is referenced in the series and is, in my opinion, integral to the next.

vicjperry · July 18, 2012 9:36 pm

Sherlock jumped because he didn't want to upset "mummy'. We will see in next season's episode Mycroft shaking hands with Robert Downey Jr. Okay, that was just wrong.

The way that Mycroft hovers over Watson is most certainly a clue as to how Mycroft was involved in all of this. Remember, they slapped Jim around a lot and got nothing, but Mycroft did apologize for the things he DID tell Moriarty. Oops, bad judgment on his part? NOT. Mycroft is AS smart as his brother, and would never jeopardize Sherlock's life unless it was staged to stop Moriarty's crime ring.

Who says the snipers were working for Moriarty and not Mycroft? What were the actual targets? Why did we see the cross hairs go from Watson then up to the top of the building before the shot was cut to the gunman? What was the scope intended to reveal? If Sherlock jumped to his death, why would the gunman's POV just be cut off?

I've been sitting in the dark for days with nicotine patches on my arm and I finally figured out the answer. The way Sherlock faked his death................will be revealed in the next episode. God almighty that first smoke tasted good!

Last edited by vicjperry (July 18, 2012 9:43 pm)

Davina · July 18, 2012 9:54 pm

Smarter than his brother in the original stories. Food for thought.

Sentimental Pulse · July 19, 2012 12:14 am

I've always felt he planned to jump or knew he had to at least make it look like he jumped. As kazza says he needs time and stealth to clear his name. I also think it likely he feels it is beneficial to get out of the paparazzi for awhile. At the very least he had to plan for the possibility of jumping or he would not have been able to pull off whatever sleight of hand trick he ultimately used to fool us.

Arya · July 19, 2012 2:31 am

Yes...but at what point did he start planning? After Moriarty's trial? When he asked Molly for help? Before the episode started?

Just a thought, even though it doesn't really have much relevance to how he faked his death

kazza474 · July 19, 2012 6:01 am

Davina wrote:
Also remember, however! that some of these people ARE killers. They were responsible for shooting General Shan in TBB, the blind old lady in TGG and the subsequent explosion that killed 12 other innocents. One would have been guilty of the kidnap and poisoning of the children in TRF. They would have helped, indirectly, to kill Connie Prince and the cabbie's victims by supplying the poison-Jim never dirties his own hands remember. The Golum is still at large as well isn't he? Have I missed anything out? Moriarty was the spider at the centre of a criminal web, this is referenced in the series and is, in my opinion, integral to the next.

Oh I am not saying that he won't track down any of the criminals associated with Moriarty. But I am not sure that this will be his main objective & motivation, that's all.

kazza474 · July 19, 2012 6:06 am

vicjperry wrote:
Sherlock jumped because he didn't want to upset "mummy'. We will see in next season's episode Mycroft shaking hands with Robert Downey Jr. Okay, that was just wrong.

The way that Mycroft hovers over Watson is most certainly a clue as to how Mycroft was involved in all of this. Remember, they slapped Jim around a lot and got nothing, but Mycroft did apologize for the things he DID tell Moriarty. Oops, bad judgment on his part? NOT. Mycroft is AS smart as his brother, and would never jeopardize Sherlock's life unless it was staged to stop Moriarty's crime ring.

Who says the snipers were working for Moriarty and not Mycroft? What were the actual targets? Why did we see the cross hairs go from Watson then up to the top of the building before the shot was cut to the gunman? What was the scope intended to reveal? If Sherlock jumped to his death, why would the gunman's POV just be cut off?

I've been sitting in the dark for days with nicotine patches on my arm and I finally figured out the answer. The way Sherlock faked his death................will be revealed in the next episode. God almighty that first smoke tasted good!

Mycroft hovers over John???

The snipers weren't working for Mycroft, killing people is not on either of the Holmes' boys agendas, never has been.
The camera work from the sniper's point of view was to illustrate his intent; 'target' John & then move away, forget it. His point of view was 'cut off' because his assignment was, that was all.

kazza474 · July 19, 2012 6:08 am

Arya wrote:
Yes...but at what point did he start planning? After Moriarty's trial? When he asked Molly for help? Before the episode started?

Just a thought, even though it doesn't really have much relevance to how he faked his death

Before the episode. He & Mycroft would have discussed Moriarty & how to crack him - build up his ego to a monstrous proportion until he finally 'cracked' himself.
I think it has a great deal with faking his death; the planning, the setting & the timing.

Sammy · July 20, 2012 12:34 am

Okay, IF he planned it...

of course BBC Moriarty has a criminal web as well, but I don't see why he would need to play dead to take them down.
I don't think he did it to escape his "fame" either, because of course at some point he will need to come back and that will upset the media even more.
I think he did it to... escape being arrested so he can set the mess with Moriarty's false identity right. I mean, the police was looking for Sherlock.
Well, and of course there was this whole the-snipers-are-going-to-kill-your-friends business going on...

Arya · July 20, 2012 2:19 am

Kazza, I find it unlikely that Sherlock can predict that far into the future. I mean, he is Sherlock, but there are just too many unknowns. The whole 'I owe you a fall' thing didn't come up until this episode, so how would Sherlock know Moriarty wanted him to fall to his death?

Sammy, I agree that would be a good reason for him to plan dying, but how could he set it right?

Last edited by Arya (July 20, 2012 2:21 am)

kazza474 · July 20, 2012 6:52 am

Arya wrote:
Kazza, I find it unlikely that Sherlock can predict that far into the future. I mean, he is Sherlock, but there are just too many unknowns. The whole 'I owe you a fall' thing didn't come up until this episode, so how would Sherlock know Moriarty wanted him to fall to his death?

Sammy, I agree that would be a good reason for him to plan dying, but how could he set it right?

He started 'planning' to bring down Moriarty once he had seen what sort of crimes he was capable of & once he saw what an egomaniac he was.
He & Mycroft studied him (hence Mycroft's interrogation) and found him to be bordering on the insane (to say the least) and realised that everytime he had a 'win' his ego swelled that little bit more. It would be simple to plan his eventual 'explosion'. And each step of the way would have brought them closer & closer to the reality that Moriarty wanted Sherlock to jump.
His overblown ego causing him to think completely irrationally on the rooftop was a carefully planned conclusion. Sherlock & Moriarty fed him the attention he craved, and modified their plans as Moriarty's plans became clearer. With that in mind, a simple fake fatal leap would have been easy to plan.

Arya · July 21, 2012 1:51 am

So do you think that Sherlock predicted that Moriarty would kill himself on the rooftop? Because I find that unlikely, given Sherlock's reaction. Sherlock wouldn't have been faking that reaction because there was no one to fake it for. It seems too complex for someone to be spying on Moriarty and Sherlock on the rooftop close enough to see Sherlock's surprise; there was no reason to. All the snipers needed to see was Sheelock falling.

kazza474 · July 21, 2012 2:02 am

Arya wrote:
So do you think that Sherlock predicted that Moriarty would kill himself on the rooftop? Because I find that unlikely, given Sherlock's reaction. Sherlock wouldn't have been faking that reaction because there was no one to fake it for. It seems too complex for someone to be spying on Moriarty and Sherlock on the rooftop close enough to see Sherlock's surprise; there was no reason to. All the snipers needed to see was Sheelock falling.

No.
You're not reading what I post, you keep putting assumptions to it. Just read my words & don't extrapolate them because by adding your words, the explanation I give then becomes improbable.

Mycroft & Sherlock saw the insaneness of Moriarty. They saw his egomaniac streak. If egomaniacs are fed enough attention, they get bolder, they get gamer and they will, sooner or later go overboard and that leads to their destruction. Destruction at their own hands.
This is what Sherlock & Mycroft are banking on.

It doesn't mean they knew he would kill himself. It means he would destroy himself in some way, but as you say, they are not fortune tellers.
But any destruction of Moriarty is a good thing, I doubt that they were too worried how it came about.
So yes, Moriarty's suicide WAS a shock to Sherlock. He would have been thinking " Oh wow, that was NOT what I thought he would do. We got what we wanted, but we didn't expect him to be dead."

besleybean · October 7, 2012 12:16 pm

I think Sherlock may have put a plan into place, if he was gong to lose out to Moriarty.
I think he saw he needed to disappear, to carry out his work.

veecee · October 7, 2012 3:23 pm

I was confused or misled by the sniper's scope moving up the first time I saw the episode, too. It wasn't till later that I realized that the camera was following the scope as the sniper moved rifle -- at least I think that was it. I do think that was a lapse in camerawork/editing -- or was it?

Mycroft is supposed to be even smarter than Sherlock (according to Irene, would that make him sexier, as well?), so I like the explanation that he purposely gave Moriarty some background on Sherlcok. But then I don't like so much how it would play out later. If Sherlock is in on or expects everythng, then our emotional ride with him is less genuine. This opinion is more feeling than logic, so Sherlock would abhor it.