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November 11, 2014 3:18 pm  #201


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

And if you look at this scene - I think we should open another thread for those deleted/re-written scenes from the Chronicles - it gets even worse:



Because here Sherlock explicit states that he may be dying and gets nothing but a derisive answer from Mrs Hudson although she probably has seen the state in which he is. I am glad they did not keep this in. 

 

Last edited by SusiGo (November 11, 2014 3:19 pm)


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 11, 2014 3:21 pm  #202


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

SolarSystem wrote:

And it's not just HLV, it's the whole of S3. Let's face it, he cames back after two years and is more lonely than ever before. 

That's what punches me in the gut in this series. I left series 2 completed disgusted with Sherlock, but understanding his sacrifice and what he went through in his two years away, then all his hard work to be a better person in the three episodes, I have to look at him as being a whole new person now. He is someone who has thrown away nearly 40 years of interacting with people and the world in a certain way and has opened himself to an enormous paradigm shift. Yet, none of his friends seem to see this, and that's how it often is. They are used to the idea of Sherlock being one way and they'll need an outsider to point out to them that he is a new man.

The 'how would you know?' exchange with Mycroft is heartbreaking. It's so true. You can't know how lonely you are until you've experienced the opposite of loneliness.

I would have liked just one scene in hospital where Sherlock is being treated kindly and he is graciously accepting help, perhaps John helping him have a meal or Mycroft wiping his brow.

He is just so vulnerable and alone in the hospital scenes we do see. There are a lot of medical inconsistencies in Sherlock's treatment and recovery, but the helpless and floaty portrayal of being heavily doped up on morphine is accurate to my experience with it. It makes my heart ache to see him so confused and even afraid with no one who loves him with him. He has plenty of friends, more than enough that they could have done a 24-hour rotation of shifts to have someone with him until he was more coherent and less vulnerable. Then again, one of those people would have been his shooter, so...

I waffle back and forth about Janine fiddling with the morphine taps. How they work in my experience is that they give a minimum and maximum dose depending on how the patient is feeling at any given time. I got the impression that Janine dialed it down to the minimum, but did not turn it off completely since that would have required tampering with the drip. Messing with someone's dose is a huge no, but I don't think Janine's behaviour is as sinister as it seems since Sherlock was still likely getting the minimum dose he needed. I used to keep dialing the morphine way down because I prefer to manage pain mentally and hated the dopey feeling, but the surgeon kept dialing it way up to keep me sedated as she felt I was too active. I had no ill effects yoyoing back and forth like that. Just sharing that to give a bit of foundation to my opinion.

So I don't find the scene with Janine to be entirely negative, not the way the Mary and Magnussen ones were. Sherlock's in a decent mood talking with Janine and seems to be enjoying her company. I wish we'd had a scene like that with Molly or Greg, someone he's a little closer to, but I'll take it.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

November 11, 2014 3:23 pm  #203


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

SusiGo wrote:

And if you look at this scene - I think we should open another thread for those deleted/re-written scenes from the Chronicles - it gets even worse:

Who was that and what have they done with Mrs. Hudson???!!! Wow, that scene was bad.

The bit about the two packs of cigarettes was funny, but otherwise this read like truly horrible fan fiction!

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

November 11, 2014 3:33 pm  #204


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

I never was disgusted with Sherlock but it is true that there is an enormous imbalance between the way we see him as a changed person and others treating him as if he was still the Sherlock from before. 

But - and this is a big but - we, the viewers, are in on facts that the other characters are not. Take John - he probably still believes that Sherlock had sex with Janine and maybe even takes part of the newspaper articles to be true. He knows Sherlock is no sex maniac but he does not know either that Sherlock and Janine did not have sex at all. 
And he has no idea either that it was him Sherlock came back for. 

But still - I find Mrs Hudson in the above scene really awful. This is no way to treat your friends in distress. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

November 11, 2014 3:46 pm  #205


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

SusiGo wrote:

But - and this is a big but - we, the viewers, are in on facts that the other characters are not.

Indeed. And I'm wondering what it's going to take for the characters to understand the things we readers know for sure.

Another key hospital scene that is missing, I think, is a surgeon asking John about the scars on Sherlock's back and then John calling Mycroft up and asking what that's all about!

I think Sherlock came back in November and the shooting was a month after the wedding, which was in May, so June. So less than a year after he came back from Serbia. With proper care, his wounds would have closed by then, but still not been anywhere near fully healed. Yup, definitely missing a key scene here!

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

November 11, 2014 5:26 pm  #206


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Yes, if only to make moaning John feel bad!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 11, 2014 6:33 pm  #207


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

besleybean wrote:

Yes, if only to make moaning John feel bad!

John seeing Sherlock's scars is a scene that is badly missing, no wonder there has been so much fan fiction about it! Our wonderful transcriptionist Ariane DeVere wrote probably the best John finally gets it stories and I couldn't believe how much my head canon needed it. Without the realisation that Sherlock was not out having a lark and laughing at John's anguish, true reconciliation is not possible.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

November 11, 2014 6:36 pm  #208


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Of all the things John doesn't know, I don't think whether Sherlock had sex with Janine matters.  He knows Sherlock faked the relationship and that's what he disapproves of, rather than the specifics of what he did (and I really don't think he'd believe the newspaper stories!).  I think the Serbia thing is a bigger deal (in terms of affecting how John sees Sherlock).  Do we know for sure that he never tells him?   I don't know if John needs to know, but I would like more acknowledgment of the fact that the two years were difficult for Sherlock too, and that he was more alone than John. 

I'm not sure if the scars would exist in the world of Sherlock.  Wounds can heal dramatically!   (At least, I hope so.  That Serbia scene was pretty brutal, and I'd rather think of it in fantasy terms).

 

November 11, 2014 6:43 pm  #209


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Sherlock was beaten to a pulp and John should know about it.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 11, 2014 6:53 pm  #210


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Mycroft knew about it, he watched and stilled called it "holiday".. 

 

November 11, 2014 6:55 pm  #211


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Again, as with the deleted Magnussen scene...
Altho I think this one would have been brilliant...
I can see why they deleted it, may have been a bit of a distraction.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 11, 2014 7:18 pm  #212


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

maryagrawatson wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

And if you look at this scene - I think we should open another thread for those deleted/re-written scenes from the Chronicles - it gets even worse:

Who was that and what have they done with Mrs. Hudson???!!! Wow, that scene was bad.

The bit about the two packs of cigarettes was funny, but otherwise this read like truly horrible fan fiction!

Mary

Agree wholeheartedly.
This was not Mrs. Hudson we know and love.
I´m so glad they changed this part of the scene to the one where Mrs. Hudson is actually the single person who notices that Sherlock is ill.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

November 11, 2014 7:20 pm  #213


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Zatoichi wrote:

Mycroft knew about it, he watched and stilled called it "holiday".. 

Which brings me to another thing that irritates me, Mycroft not giving John a much needed heads up, including 'He's in bad shape, be gentle with him.'

The show really trivializes Sherlock's injuries, so here's some real word perspective on deep tissue damage to that part of the body in the form of multiple lacerations: six months for the wounds to close up fully after two solid months of bed rest and four months of barely being able to do anything beyond walking to the loo and sitting up because of the amount of muscles in the torso pulling at the wounds in every direction. A year before being able to go back to full activities. A further year to regain lost strength and muscle mass. Then years and years and years (seven and counting) of shooting pain from nerve regeneration.

Sherlock was badly hurt and John set his recovery back by months. Mycroft could have prevented that. I think I'm angrier with Mycroft than I am John now that I think about it.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

November 11, 2014 7:23 pm  #214


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Please note that I have also opened a new thread for the discussion of deleted or re-written parts of the script that are contained in the Sherlock Chronicles. 

http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=195342#p195342


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

November 11, 2014 7:24 pm  #215


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Cheers.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 11, 2014 7:52 pm  #216


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

SolarSystem wrote:

And it's not just HLV, it's the whole of S3. Let's face it, he cames back after two years and is more lonely than ever before. John isn't there. And it's not just that he'a not in 221B, he's not with Sherlock in hospital when all these nasty things happen, either. I strongly believe that he was there with Sherlock right after he was shot and brought to the hospital, after all we see him being there telling Mary that Sherlock has pulled through. So I take this as a slight comfort. But I agree, we definitely need more comofrt for Sherlock in S4. Much more comfort. 
 

I can imagine that John was nearby. Maybe he slept in some other room (after the burglary, shooting and a frantic rescue of Sherlock he had to be drained of the last shred of power) or was engaged with the policement making the first investigations of the shooting. But I don´t believe he was with Sherlock in the room where he was recovering. Becuase I can´t imagine that John would allow some of the "flowers gifts" to remain. Sherlock can deduce reality from the small signs. If he awoke in a room surrounded by all those "fleurs du mal", funeral wreaths and other "presents" signifying the hatred of people aimed at him and their wish that he wouldn´t survive, he would be inadvertedly hurt. And I can´t see John allowing that to happen. John may be oblivious sometimes - but not THAT oblivious.
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

November 11, 2014 8:35 pm  #217


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Let's not forget that S3 is mainly told from Sherlock's POV. That gives us wonderful inside into his mind palace and how vulnerable he really is, but also limits the writers a bit. I think this is the reason for the absence of scenes with John waiting for Sherlock to wake up in hospital. Maybe that is even the reason why we do not get to see what happens between Mycroft and John in S3.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

November 11, 2014 10:20 pm  #218


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

Schmiezi wrote:

Let's not forget that S3 is mainly told from Sherlock's POV.

Of course! Thank you for that reminder.

But if we could have the John and Mary scene in TEH, we could have had a scene of John waiting for Sherlock to wake up.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

November 12, 2014 6:35 am  #219


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

We may have to consider which scenes actually move the plot on.

Last edited by besleybean (November 12, 2014 5:09 pm)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 12, 2014 7:49 am  #220


Re: The deleted scene (special edition)

That's a good point, Besleybean.   Showing John at the hospital is maybe enough to show that he was there.   Surely Sherlock's parents would have visited (and Mrs Holmes says how she feel about it later!).   Mycroft is suspiciously quiet about the whole thing, though. 

 

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