BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Questions! I have questions!

ancientsgate · July 17, 2012 6:41 am

As I said on another thread, I watched Belgravia today for I think the 3rd or maybe 4th time. I'm just now noticing stuff, like duh!

Danger night? Is that what Mycroft said Sherlock would have, after they ID'd Irene's mangled body in Molly's morgue? So, what? Sherlock has a history of suicide attempts when he's really down? Eeeeek. John didn't seem surprised at this news; did I miss something in an earlier episode?? 'Cause the suicide thing was news to me. What were Mrs. H and John searching for in Sherlock's things, stuff he could use to off himself? Drugs? Gun? See, this is all news to me, and I don't like it. Have I totally misunderstood that whole part of the episode?? I swear to god, I never understood any of that whole thing the first couple times I watched this episode. Went right straight over my head.

What'd Sherlock spray in that guy's face before he smashed his forehead into him and called him an idiot or moron or whatever it was? Furniture polish? Tuner spray for the knobs on a stereo or a TV? What was that? Surely they didn't have hairspray hanging out in the livingroom.

So it seems obvious at the end that Irene did not die, that Sherlock spared her (as Mycroft said earlier, no one but Sherlock could have fooled them all and pulled that off) . So what did he do with her, squirrel her away somewhere? Is that where he went after the fall, to wherever she's hiding, so they could be together?

Sherlock is a piece of work. I am fascinated with him, but the more I try to understand him, the more slippery the whole thing gets to my poor inadequate mind.

Tomorrow I'll watch the commentary version of the episode, and maybe they'll answer some questions for me.

kazza474 · July 17, 2012 7:10 am

Yes, that would be the best, watch & observe during the commentary version.
In short;
- there is no suggestion that danger night means suicide.It's in the commentary.
- danger night could mean drugs, could mean alcohol or could just mean cigarettes. It is never explained at this stage. Nor is it necessary. It's in the commentary.
- Sherlock used a can of spray from Mrs H's cleaning products from where they were abandoned downstairs. It's in the commentary.
- He saved her from being beheaded; where she went after that isn't relevant. She's a capable woman. It's in the commentary.

tobeornot221b · July 17, 2012 7:18 am

I'm not absolutely sure whether the ZIL spray can from Mrs Hudson's detergents bucket is the same one Sherlock is using later -
it looks slightly different, but ok:

kazza474 · July 17, 2012 7:28 am

Yep, in the commentary they said it was the can of Zil, so I tend to think it is. I am not a Zil expert as we don't have that product here.

SusiGo · July 17, 2012 7:28 am

I'll really have to watch the commentary version because I've always wondered about their fears for Sherlock at this stage. Mycroft's grave attitude and John and Mrs. Hudson searching the flat to me seem slightly disproportionate if they only feared him taking up smoking again. Of course today smoking is often regarded as a "deadly sin" but I don't think that Moftiss would share this attitude.

ancientsgate · July 17, 2012 7:31 am

kazza474 wrote:
Yes, that would be the best, watch & observe during the commentary version.
In short;
- there is no suggestion that danger night means suicide.It's in the commentary.
- danger night could mean drugs, could mean alcohol or could just mean cigarettes. It is never explained at this stage. Nor is it necessary. It's in the commentary.
- Sherlock used a can of spray from Mrs H's cleaning products from where they were abandoned downstairs. It's in the commentary.
- He saved her from being beheaded; where she went after that isn't relevant. She's a capable woman. It's in the commentary.

So I get the idea you think I should listen to the commentary.

I did start it tonight but will have to finish tomorrow, when I'm (more) awake.

I don't think danger night could have meant something as simple as cigarettes--- too many serious, long faces for it to be something as benign as that. Mrs. H, John and Mycroft were clearly *worried* about Sherlock. Have we ever seen Sherlock touch alcohol?

But I'll listen to the commentary. Too many voices talking all at once for me, and their accents are difficult for me, of course. There seems like very little from Ben. But if I listen to that 2 or 3 times, maybe I'll start to understand all that, too. Sheesh, this is taking a lot of time! Maybe I need to get a life and just decide to go with the flow.

Mattlocked · July 17, 2012 8:27 am

Yesterday I watched it a third (?) time, too and I always thought at "danger night" they were searching for drugs. Harder ones than just cigarettes.
Anyhow they were all very worried so I couldn't understand the reaction of Johns girlfriend at that time. (A bit later when he was talking about her "dog" I DID understand her, though! )
Where Irene ended up is not relevant, indeed. But I wondered why Sherlock kept her phone? To make it more likely to meet her again? Or just as kind of memory? But that would be sentiment, wouldn't it?

tobeornot221b · July 17, 2012 8:36 am

Mattlocked wrote:
Where Irene ended up is not relevant, indeed. But I wondered why Sherlock kept her phone? To make it more likely to meet her again? Or just as kind of memory? But that would be sentiment, wouldn't it?

Keeping her phone is according to canon where Sherlock asks the King of Bohemia for Irene's photograph:

“I am immensely indebted to you. Pray tell me in what way I can reward you. This ring—.� He slipped an emerald snake ring from his finger, and held it out upon the palm of his hand.
“Your Majesty has something which I should value even more highly,� said Holmes.
“You have but to name it.�
“This photograph!�
The King stared at him in amazement.
“Irene's photograph!� he cried. “Certainly, if you wish it.�
“I thank your Majesty. Then there is no more to be done in the matter. I have the honour to wish you a very good morning.� He bowed, and, turning away without observing the hand which the King had stretched out to him, he set off in my company for his chambers.
And that was how a great scandal threatened to affect the kingdom of Bohemia, and how the best plans of Mr. Sherlock Holmes were beaten by a woman's wit. He used to make merry over the cleverness of women, but I have not heard him do it of late. And when he speaks of Irene Adler, or when he refers to her photograph, it is always under the honourable title of the woman.

Davina · July 17, 2012 9:16 pm

The woman.

ancientsgate · July 17, 2012 11:32 pm

Davina wrote:
The woman.

John: "What woman?"
Sherlock, impatiently: "The Woman Woman!"
*laugh*

Smoggy_London_Air · July 17, 2012 11:47 pm

Okay, you have me. What is Zil? Is it even possible to Mace somebody with Zil? Because I know that here, if you grabbed a bottle of, say, Oxyclean, it probably wouldn't do you much good.

ancientsgate · July 18, 2012 12:23 am

Smoggy_London_Air wrote:
Okay, you have me. What is Zil? Is it even possible to Mace somebody with Zil? Because I know that here, if you grabbed a bottle of, say, Oxyclean, it probably wouldn't do you much good.

I googled it and found nothing, so I presume it was a brand name made up for the show-- it wouldn't do to have Sherlock use a commonly-known household brand to spray into someone's face and use as a weapon--- not good PR for the Pledge or Windex people, lol. But anyway, I think it was supposed to be furniture polish or perhaps glass cleaner.

Not like mace, no, but darned uncomfortable to get directly in the eyes, whatever it was supposed to be. Ouch.

Sentimental Pulse · July 18, 2012 2:35 am

ancientsgate wrote:
Davina wrote:
The woman.
John: "What woman?"
Sherlock, impatiently: "The Woman Woman!"
*laugh*

The Woman he loves *Trying to see if Kazza is vigilant*

sherlockskitty · July 18, 2012 2:52 am

I'm thinking that john and mrs hudson were trying to find Irene's Phone, so they could give it to Mycroft, because he asked them to look for it. No, that wasn't in the commentary. By the way, there is another thread where one of the mods had a link to the written text of the commentary. Look for it. I had it on my PC but I've deleted them since, sorry.

As for the spray--yeah--it wasn't a major brand, it was labeled that just for the show. The reason is, I'm assuming that shows have to pay a fee to the company for putting their product on the show. And, ANY kind of spray would be hazardous to spray in someone's eyes...so you get a surprised reaction when it happens to you.

so--- this would be a thread where we can ask any question about SIB, right?

ancientsgate · July 18, 2012 4:28 am

sherlockskitty wrote:
so--- this would be a thread where we can ask any question about SIB, right?

Sure. Go for it. I started the thread with my questions, and as far as I'm concerned, all inquiring minds want to know, so this is as good place as any!

JaneCo · July 18, 2012 6:20 pm

I doubt if the BBC would have to pay the manufacturer of the spray (although they probably wouldn't be too thrilled about it being used as an offensive weapon). The BBC traditionally has a policy of no advertising. For example if a container was in shot, perhaps a drinks can or bottle, the part of the label with the brand name would be turned away from the camera. Not so sure if the regs are so strict now.

I loved the name Zil (I would buy it ).

JaneCo · July 18, 2012 6:25 pm

Did someone ask about a transcript of the episode? A 'rough' (IMHO very good) transcript can be found here.

http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/26320.html

ancientsgate · July 18, 2012 7:04 pm

JaneCo wrote:
I doubt if the BBC would have to pay the manufacturer of the spray (although they probably wouldn't be too thrilled about it being used as an offensive weapon). The BBC traditionally has a policy of no advertising. For example if a container was in shot, perhaps a drinks can or bottle, the part of the label with the brand name would be turned away from the camera. Not so sure if the regs are so strict now.

I loved the name Zil (I would buy it ).

Yes, they would have to pay or at least broker some kind of deal "you grease mine, and I'll grease yours". Sometimes the show-runners even cover up the Apple logo on the back of the laptop on the desk at Baker Street, have you noticed that? I haven't noticed them trying to cover up the Apple on Sherlock's smart phone, though, for some reason. Usually it's pretty visible.

Anyone notice that directly after the Zil thing, John goes outside, meets up with Althena or whatever her name is, and climbs in a car that has ZYL in the license plate?

Mrs.Wenceslas · December 18, 2012 2:59 pm

I think John and Mrs. Hudson were looking for the phone, for it was dangerous for Sherlock to have it - the CIA and others knew that Irene was dead and somebody else could let the picures come out etc-

anjaH_alias · December 18, 2012 4:20 pm

Mrs.Wenceslas wrote:
I think John and Mrs. Hudson were looking for the phone, for it was dangerous for Sherlock to have it - the CIA and others knew that Irene was dead and somebody else could let the picures come out etc-

There is a direct connection to the cigarette Sherlock has taken before - ´Did he take it? Shit!!´. They are definetely looking for cigarettes or drugs. "Caring is not an advantage" says Mycroft before. He knows about what he is talking, has obviously experienced a lot with his little brother.
Taking the phone would mean a deep intervention into Sherlock´s personality rights according to me. Neither Mycroft nor John would do this.

Last edited by anjaH_alias (December 18, 2012 4:23 pm)