BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The deleted scene (special edition)

besleybean · November 2, 2014 7:12 pm

Oh stop it you lot, you're killing me!

nakahara · November 2, 2014 7:13 pm

Sorry.

Liberty · November 2, 2014 7:21 pm

Oh dear - it really does add an extra creepy element to Lestrade filming him!

It is odd that his parents don't visit too. (Maybe loads of people visit that we don't see?).

besleybean · November 2, 2014 7:24 pm

I wonder if Mycroft contacted the parents, told them what happened and said not to worry, everything was fine and he'd bring Sherlock over for Xmas...

SusiGo · November 2, 2014 7:26 pm

Actually we do not see anyone who loves or likes him visit which is quite sad and creates a sense of isolation. This time alone does not protect him but is seems it is all he has. And now I am going to cry in a corner.

SusiGo · November 2, 2014 7:28 pm

besleybean wrote:
I wonder if Mycroft contacted the parents, told them what happened and said not to worry, everything was fine and he'd bring Sherlock over for Xmas...

Well, we do not even get the slightest hint about Mycroft until Christmas. Did he visit Sherlock? Did he know who shot Sherlock? Has the police been investigating? It does not matter if Magnussen did not identify Mary, the police would have investigated anyway, I suppose. But we get nothing. This is the reason I think that in the next season we will learn some interesting things about Mycroft whatever they may be.

besleybean · November 2, 2014 7:29 pm

Well Greg and John did at least try and see him.

SusiGo · November 2, 2014 7:33 pm

True but that was days after the shooting. Although I thought that John just wearing a cardigan could mean that he was at the hospital and went down to get Lestrade to show him the room. He also knew about Sherlock being drugged up to the gills so he must have been with him.
However, that does not change the fact that Sherlock was threatened/manipulated/violated three times (if we include Magnussen) and no one did anything about it. Do you think John would have let Magnussen alone into Sherlock's room after the Baker Street incident? Not really. So he was not there.
And Mary went into Sherlock's room alone. I suppose she found some excuse to keep him outside because she had some threatening to do.
And he have been over fiddling with the morphine in some other threads and again she could do this without anyone noticing.

Last edited by SusiGo (November 2, 2014 7:33 pm)

besleybean · November 2, 2014 7:34 pm

Yep, a lot of TV reality!

stoertebeker · November 2, 2014 8:04 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Actually we do not see anyone who loves or likes him visit which is quite sad and creates a sense of isolation. This time alone does not protect him but is seems it is all he has. And now I am going to cry in a corner.

*passing-a-tissue-to-Susi*

Well to be fair, the episode has only 90 minutes and it would have took a lot of time to show every visitor. So we just have to assume that he has had some (nice) ones. John knew what Sherlock has said after waking up, so he was there with him. But yes I think it was deliberate that we only got to see him on his own.

SusiGo · November 2, 2014 8:14 pm

Thank you, dear.

I agree. And the Mary and the Janine scenes both have important functions within the story while - sad as it is - showing Sherlock with people who care for him would be nice but would not drive on the story.

Btw, the fact that they cut this scene IMO puts further stress on Mary being a villain. Now she is the only one who threatens Sherlock while he is helpless, she is the only one exploiting the fact that he cannot even talk back.
And something else - when Sherlock shoots Magnussen we do not even suspect a more personal motive than saving Mary and thereby John (or just John but that is beside the point here). Had they kept this scene, one might have concluded that Sherlock also wanted to revenge for himself (understandable but not utterly selfless).

This Is The Phantom Lady · November 2, 2014 8:36 pm

I wanted to shoot Magnussen just by seeing that scene alone... So I agree with you Susie, it was 'clever' to cut it in order to steer our sympathy I suppose.

Liberty · November 2, 2014 8:42 pm

Yes, good point. I think if we'd seen that scene then Mary's comment that people like Magnusson deserve to die might have endeared her to us more.

stoertebeker · November 2, 2014 8:42 pm

True, good point. I agree, that put more pressure on the Mary character.

Although I don't see Mary as a villain. Well, I don't see Mary as a good person, either. I am very undecided about her character. Mary is one of the many things that left me confused (an a bit frustated) after HLV. Therefore I also hope for a bit more explenation and resolution in series 4.

Zatoichi · November 3, 2014 4:46 am

That reads like a horrible scene, and I´m glad they cut it.. I don´t think S3 would have needed another scene of Sherlock being threatened and harrassed. Also it would have made the shooting of CAM even more problematic, with a strong element of selfish reasons/ personal revenge.

The `woman´s hands`..hmm. They gave Magnussen that line, they let Mycroft say that cross-dressing would have been in many ways a wiser path for Sherlock, they let Sherlock say the "girl´s name"-line and that all nice girls like a soldier.. plus Sherlock´s disgust for Magnussen attacking "people who are different".. gives me somewhat of a non-binary vibe? (Not necessarily gay, because to equal a gay man with a woman is just something you don´t do..although it could include homosexuality of course.) As always can mean everything nd nothing.

So the pilot-cabbie, Moriarty, Irene and Magnussen.. every villain so far made sexual innuendos directed at Sherlock.. does that mean I havê to give credit to Mary for at least not molesting him??

Last edited by Zatoichi (November 3, 2014 6:21 am)

besleybean · November 3, 2014 6:55 am

Well she did everything but!
But then she was genuinely attracted to him..
Actually I've just thought of something else.
It may be totally irrelevant, but I'll throw it in any way.
Firstly, I agree that if they'd included this scene, Sherlock's motive would have seemed purely selfish.
But I'm now thinking of what CAM said about Janine making the funniest little noises...
There was some discussion that this could refer to him having had sex with her.
So after CAM 'comes on' to Sherlock in hospital...maybe when he makes the comment to Sherlock about Janine, that's like him saying: oh yes, I'll have a go at and abuse any vulnerable person...

Actually, while I'm here:
can I say something else which really bugs me?
I just feel Steven gets OCD about certain things.
I understand the need for at least justice seeming to have been done with Sherlock after he commits murder...
But what I don't get is this obssession with how badly Sherlock treated Janine.
I mean, it had only been going on about a month, he hadn't slept with her and wasn't actually going to marry her...
She already had pay back from the newspaper stories...really, she'd had enough.
Sherlock needed no futher punishment.

Last edited by besleybean (November 3, 2014 6:56 am)

nakahara · November 3, 2014 12:47 pm

Graphic parallelism of Mary-CAM scenes.
Drives the point home, really:

http://loudest-subtext-in-television.tumblr.com/post/101504109434/johnlockismyreligion-noooo-but-mary-is-a-good

SolarSystem · November 3, 2014 12:55 pm

Drives the point home and makes me wonder whether or not they really initially intended to use both scenes in the episode. It's a bit too much of parallelism for my taste. As a deleted scene of course this is very interesting, because what this tells us is: Mary and CAM are very much alike. Nevertheless it would have been a bit too obvious if we had seen this in the episode.

Last edited by SolarSystem (November 3, 2014 12:56 pm)

Liberty · November 3, 2014 12:59 pm

I'll answer you over on the Janine thread, Besley, because I've been thinking about just this thing too.

SusiGo · November 3, 2014 1:01 pm

I agree. It stresses Mary's ruthless behaviour but I am sure they would not have included both scenes because they are too similar.
Btw, if I am not mistaken Sherlock has different forms of adhesive tape in this scene and the Janine scene so I suppose they were not shot in close succession.