BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The Imitation Game

gently69 · October 28, 2014 12:41 pm

That's unbelievable sad.

SolarSystem · October 28, 2014 2:12 pm

Oh my god, that's just awful, cruel and unbelievable. How can people, how can society do something like this to another human being? It must have driven him mad.

gently69 · October 28, 2014 2:28 pm

Don't think this was already posted here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlYtYJcY0R0

PLEASE tell me ... HOW could I wait until January to watch that film????????????????

Last edited by gently69 (October 28, 2014 3:12 pm)

SusiGo · October 28, 2014 3:07 pm

Yes, gently, it is a great scene and he is so completely … different. And such a long wait.

As for the implant:
Andrew Hodges is strangely unspecific about it - "For the past three months they had put an implant of hormone into his thigh, instead of the dosage of pills. Suspecting with some annoyance, that the effect would last more than three months, he had taken it out."
Now taking out an implant in your thigh would require some force, I suppose, and a sharp tool. This is really horrible.

ancientsgate · October 28, 2014 4:16 pm

SusiGo wrote:
This is about thing that were cut from th GN show. Really shocking, I did not know these details about the chemical castration:
Most importantly, BC spoke about Alan Turing and the treatment that the scientist received after his sentence. BC said that Turing’s doctor was embarrassed about Turing having to make regular visits to the surgery in order to have the oestrogen injections (chemical castration) and so instead fitted Turing with an implant directly into his hip. The treatment was to last for two years as, after that point, it would have been deemed to have been ‘successful’. BC said that such was Turing’s distress in having the device inside him, that at one stage of utter despair, he took a knife and attempted to cut the implant out himself. The scars of which he bore until his death.

I read a bio about Turing the other day that said he was rather matter of fact about the estrogen thing (as much as anyone could be, you know what I mean), and that he chose the treatments rather than imprisonment because he was so anxious to continue his work, something he couldn't do from jail. Looking at it with 21st century eyes, it seems barbaric and even inhumane, but those were the days those folks lived in. Sodomy was actually illegal here in some southern states until like 10 or 15 years ago, believe it or not. Yes, no one ever enforced those laws, but they could have.

ancientsgate · October 28, 2014 4:19 pm

gently69 wrote:
Don't think this was already posted here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlYtYJcY0R0

Love that clip, with his Sherlock-sounding reply at the end. *smile*

ancientsgate · October 28, 2014 4:23 pm

I hope the movie focuses on the computer he built and not his homosexuality. I'd feel the same way if he were straight and the movie focused on some shippy love story instead of his genius. Ah, well, we'll all find out, not so long to wait now. Compared to the waiting we do for more Sherlock, this waiting is next to nothing.

besleybean · October 28, 2014 4:47 pm

It famously has no sex in it.

Harriet · October 28, 2014 4:50 pm

ancientsgate wrote:
I read a bio about Turing the other day that said he was rather matter of fact about the estrogen thing (as much as anyone could be, you know what I mean), and that he chose the treatments rather than imprisonment because he was so anxious to continue his work, something he couldn't do from jail. Looking at it with 21st century eyes, it seems barbaric and even inhumane, but those were the days those folks lived in. Sodomy was actually illegal here in some southern states until like 10 or 15 years ago, believe it or not. Yes, no one ever enforced those laws, but they could have.

And still it seems he was so disturbed by it that he decided to perform surgery on his own body

Also, in France homosexuality was legal since 1791. So the UK law was especially cruel, compared to neighbours.

Last edited by Harriet (October 28, 2014 4:52 pm)

SusiGo · October 28, 2014 4:54 pm

This may have been the days people lived in but this does not mean that they did not suffer. I am sure Alan Turing would have loved to be able to openly express his sexuality. We do not know why he took his life and there is still a lot of discussion going on about the reasons but one thing is fairly obvious: he realised that he was observed by the authorities and that he never would be able to have a sexual life. A gay Norwegian friend of his who wanted to visit him was stopped by the authorities and sent back to Norway. I suppose for a man like Alan England must have felt like a prison in some ways.

besleybean · October 28, 2014 5:02 pm

And it was...
Vile stuff.

Harriet · October 28, 2014 5:06 pm

Couldn't agree more, bb

This Is The Phantom Lady · October 28, 2014 6:52 pm

I honestly just started sobbing reading about his implant. What a terrible life. How on earth could they treat ANYONE like that??

However I loved the clip. Thanks for sharing it!

Liberty · October 28, 2014 7:09 pm

ancientsgate wrote:
I read a bio about Turing the other day that said he was rather matter of fact about the estrogen thing (as much as anyone could be, you know what I mean), and that he chose the treatments rather than imprisonment because he was so anxious to continue his work, something he couldn't do from jail. Looking at it with 21st century eyes, it seems barbaric and even inhumane, but those were the days those folks lived in. Sodomy was actually illegal here in some southern states until like 10 or 15 years ago, believe it or not. Yes, no one ever enforced those laws, but they could have.

That was my understanding too, but I wonder if it was just because of the work - prison can be a dangerous place, especially for sex offenders.

In England, even after sex between men was legal, there were all sorts of restrictions on it, so people were still sentenced for having the wrong sort of sex in the wrong circumstances. It's only fairly recently (2000s, I think?) that the sex laws were revamped.

SusiGo · October 28, 2014 7:17 pm

IMO both punishments - hormone treatment and a prison sentence - are inhuman and barbaric. The former was regarded as progressive and scientific (homosexuality as a curable illness/condition), the other was a more "classic" form of punishment (homosexuality as a criminal offence).
Btw, I recently watched a documentation about doctors in Germany (usually from a Fundamentalist Christian background) offering treatment to gay men to cure them from their orientation - now, in 2014, not sixty years ago! It was as horrible as it was ridiculous.

Harriet · October 28, 2014 7:30 pm

While at least the Protestant Churches in Germany are finally in a process towards full acceptance of gay and lesbian people.

besleybean · October 28, 2014 7:32 pm

I am glad of UK legislation on gay rights...
Doesn't tend to be politics that are the problem.

This Is The Phantom Lady · October 28, 2014 7:36 pm

I am so glad times have changed in a lot of the world. Way too late for poor Alan...
In my ears it's so ridiculous being treated like that for the way you are and was born.

Liberty · October 28, 2014 7:42 pm

Well, they didn't believe it was the way people were in those days - I think for my parents' generation it was thought of as something that was caused by parenting and early experiences (domineering mother, weak father, etc. or contact with gay men). So it was considered curable (and still is by some - there was an expose a while ago of therapists who were offering "treatment").

Last edited by Liberty (October 28, 2014 7:42 pm)

besleybean · October 28, 2014 7:44 pm

I know what I think's to blame for those attitiudes and we are still fighiting those attitudes now