Well, some of us would include Besley. And actually I just remembered that Mark said something like that it's a bit strange that Sherlock would forgive her on the empire podcast. So who knows what else they want to do with it, maybe Susi's wish comes true. I'm fine either way, if they leave it at this and move on to the next bit I'll also be happy. 

Quite the contrary, it looks very sherlockian to me that Sherlock doesn't remain on the obvious explanation (she shot me to kill me) and understands  another possible meaning for mary's action ( she shot me surgically,  to save me)

For me, it doesn't hurt the inner logic of the show. It would seem to me as much plausible as Sherlock hiding a plan about Mary.  Let's wait S4

I really believe the mary's problem for fans is basically a Johnlock problem .
And, as much as i'm not sure I like Sherlock being surrounded by a kind of "sherlock's team" ( Mycroft, Mary, Lestrade, Molly, Wiggins....), I'm not either only focused  on a unmovable and sacrosanct tandem

Last edited by NatureNoHumansNo (October 5, 2014 11:39 am)

I'm not so worried.  I think this is similar to TRF, in that Sherlock is setting things up for people to think one thing, whilst believing another himself.  I think this is actually Sherlock back on form, and in character.  Actually, both versions are in character - Sherlock would understand if somebody almost killed him for what seemed to be a very good reason, and Sherlock would create a false situation and even fool people close to him if it suited a higher purpose.   The second version fits the story "facts" better, though (I think).   And I'm trying to have faith that we will find out that the second version is what's happening, and we'll also find out why he does it.

Mary could still be OK in the end, and that would be fine with me as long as we're not left to believe the surgery explanation. 

I don't "believe" (I'm making it sound like a religion, sorry!) in Johnlock so I'm not coming from that angle.   My angle is that I often see Sherlock being cleverer than he seems and having secret plans.

Tastes differ, but I for one like to see Sherlock´s superior mind winning in the end. I like to see him challenged, but if he continues to be rescued by John, resorting to violence or sheer dumb luck it would stop being Sherlock Holmes for me.

I like to see his mind winning too, but I like to see it as a live process, not as a plan (let alone Mycroft's plan, like it's been explained in TEH )

I think Sherlock could give Mary a pass for shooting him because he could look at it unemotionally..and concentrate on the mystery...he made up the lame excuses for John because he wanted them to fix it quicky...and get back to Magnusson / Mary case and not be bothered with the emotional aspects.
Sherlock knew how hard emotionally John would find it..without some reasons for what happened..Sherlock prob advised John not to read the memory srick too...John doesn't have a delete function..

The show is in the real ish world though and so they do have to keep it real ish..MG said something similar.
Going with the flow with things like the Golem and Mycroft is all fun and fine..it is what it is and it makes sense.
With Mary it is what it is....but it doesn't make logical sense....there's a few impossibles....as mentioned in other threads.
So I hope they do get back to more...outlandish and unusual...but this is what and how plots...without the holes.

I don't think the dislike for Mary is anything to do with it upsetting the Johnlock aspect...before S03 there wasn't really any of that..there was a fair bit of excitement for the storyline...it's only after she shot Sherlock and her dislikable aspects were shown...in a way for the Johnlockers it would be better if Mary stayed as advertised..normal woman/wife etc ...so John got what he thought he wanted...and had to face the fact that it isn't.

I hope you are not talking about this board. Usually people are quite polite no matter their convictions. And I remember that lots of fans were very positive about Amanda and her part in the show. On this board there was not cheap hatred or anything but high expectations about the new episodes and Mary's character. 

I think Amanda does a very good job. Mary is an interesting and ambivalent character (as is e.g. Moriarty). And all those heated discussions are proof that Mary is the real cliffhanger of series 3 and not Moriarty's re-appearance. 
 

Thank you for checking, lil. I know there have been fans on tumblr who were aggressively against the inclusion of Mary or who sent Amanda hate messages via Twitter but this did not happen here, neither before nor after the airing. And as a mod I would not have tolerated it.
 

NatureNoHumansNo wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

Since someone just recently mentioned black and white and stereotypes: what I find particularly black and white and stereotypical is the assumption that Johnlockers don't like Mary because they are Johnlockers. There might by Johnlockers who think that way, but there certainly also are Johnlockers who are able to look at Mary as a character without constantly thinking 'Johnlock, Johnlok, Johnlock' in the back of their heads.

 
wow, i don't want to start on this ( because Idon't want to tilt on windmills or fight a losing battle) but that's such a reality-reshaping.
I don't count the times when I wanted to discuss and have been pushed out by agressive Johnlockers or private jokes between johnlockers.

You started a thread in April asking for motivations of disliking Mary and you got lots of kind and honest replies that had nothing to do Johnlock (mine among others). Why can't you accept that? Why do you insist on a construct that is not supported by people here on this board?

I agree. I think he manipulates Mary for John's sake because he knows that he has to buy time as he will spend quite some time in hospital. He wants to placate her and accepts that he can only do so by hurting John and being verbally attacked by John in return. For me this shows that even under these extreme circumstances his brain functions quite well.