BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Doctor Who

Bronte89 · September 17, 2014 1:17 pm

I enjoyed the Robot of Sherwood.

sj4iy · September 17, 2014 1:19 pm

"Listen" was absolutely amazing. I was scared, shocked and even tearful at different points. Great episode, best of the season.

Liberty · September 18, 2014 6:51 am

I know that the time travel thing means that neither came first and they both have to exist together - but what do you feel came first, Clara telling the young Doctor the fear story, or the Doctor telling Clara the fear story (which is what made her tell it to him in the first place)? My instinct tells me that it comes from the Doctor. It feels more like his words.

Of course, the Doctor doesn't remember the dream as an adult, but I think it's touching that by comforting Rupert he ends up giving that message to himself as a child. And as John Hurt, of course.

How much is he moulding himself and how much is Clara, the teacher, moulding him? Maybe that's the answer - as the companions are temporary and the Doctor is constant, I prefer to think that the fear story comes from him, and Clara is the messenger.

Sorry if that's not making sense to anyone. Time travel always ends up confusing me!

Last edited by Liberty (September 18, 2014 6:52 am)

Davina · September 19, 2014 6:58 am

Listen: scary, moving, brilliant! Doctor Who is to move to a later time slot here in the UK because of the return of Strictly Come Dancing. This means it will end after the start of the 9 o'clock watershed. It'll be the latest it has ever been on here, I think. This episode genuinely frightening and disturbing so won't necessarily be a bad thing at all considering the demographics of the show (says the person who spent many a Saturday afternoon hiding behind the settee from the Daleks!)

Last edited by Davina (September 19, 2014 6:59 am)

Liberty · September 19, 2014 7:05 am

I suppose it's watched so much by adults now ... but it does seem a shame that it will be too late for most children. It's nice to have a family show like that that everybody can watch together. I used to really look forward to it as a child, and again watching it as a parent. I suppose everybody just watches it on iplayer now.

SolarSystem · September 19, 2014 8:25 am

Can I just say that I would never have come up with the idea that this is a show for the whole family if I hadn't read it in official statements? Apart from the fact that some of the episodes are really dark and scary, there are also episodes that are pretty complicated - do children even understand what those episodes are about?

Liberty · September 19, 2014 4:40 pm

That's an interesting question. The original episodes really were scary for children, didn't feel dumbed down and were entertaining enough for adults to make it a family show, rather than just a children's show. I'm saying that from memory, though. But those are the episodes that Moftiss would have grown up with, and what influenced them. As a child, I was less interested in the plot than the feel of the episodes. But I do get the feeling that the current episodes are less straightforward than the old ones. There are so many parts that make you think, but don't give you any clear answers. I'm loving that in Sherlock, but could it be frustrating for a child? Not a younger child who will just relax and enjoy it, but an older child who will question it?

However, children really do enjoy it, and I think it can be fun for children to watch something that's a little bit challenging for them. It's such a shame if it's no longer for them .... especially if you see Steven Moffat and Peter Capaldi talking about it and showing their huge enthusiasm for the series' as children. It was so exciting getting ready to watch it and hearing that opening music!

silverblaze · September 24, 2014 4:52 pm

I don't think it's too complicated for children, Listen was a bit complex but Robots of Sherwood was really straightforward. I didn't grow up with DW but I grew up with Startrek TGN. Even as a child I always loved the more complicated episodes with time travel and paradoxes and so on.

SolarSystem · September 24, 2014 7:26 pm

Well, in the UK most seasons seem to be rated 12 when you buy them on DVD, which I totally understand. But it seems to me that when DW airs on TV, children of five or six years do watch it, too. And yes, the parents probably are watching it with them, but in my opinion a lot of the episodes aren't really suitable for children that young.

Davina · September 26, 2014 8:37 am

The old ones terrified me as a child....but I still watched them every week, albeit from behind the settee for much of the time. It has always been for both children and adults, working on different levels.

besleybean · September 26, 2014 4:12 pm

See I only remember the old ones as a child...so I don't know.
But I do think the modern ones certainly work on more than one level.

Liberty · October 12, 2014 8:50 pm

Fantastic episode last night - another of my favourites! The writer, Jamie Matheson, did a great AMA on Reddit after the show.

A nice little Sherlock reference here:

Q. As a story geek, wannabe writer, I have always wanted to ask this broad question:What amount of freedom do you get to use the characters and possibly make large changes? do you get specific limitations?Clara's last moment change of heart in the last minuet of the episode, was that you leading into your second written episode? Were you charged with the graceful, yet, willful exit of Clara, questioning herself this time and then perhaps being concrete about leaving the doctor next episode? (Speculation)

A. Steven Moffat controls the broad arc across the season. If I suddenly said 'I want Clara to leave the Doctor in this episode.' He'd sigh and shake his head while peeling an apple with a very sharp knife, never once breaking eye contact. But Clara was in Mummy and given the events at the end of Kill the Moon, there had to be an arc that made sense of that. Thus, the last hurrah idea.

Some info on cut scenes;
I found the meetings with Steven great fun. Bouncing around ideas, breaking the story. There are a couple of filmed scenes from Mummy, cut for time. The first takes place in the 'lab carriage'. The Doctor notices that people have lit a candle near the scroll and are leaving trinkets and money. Perkins calls it a memorial. The Doctor is angry and insists it's a shrine and basically rants against superstition. I can see why it was cut as it doesn't advance the plot, but I loved it. The second was a 'Farewell Maisie' scene, which occurred on the planet at the end. Maisie was revealed near the fire, bringing back firewood. She mentioned that when the Doctor removed her pain and trauma, he took it away for good...

Interesting that there was less Clara to fit in with the schedule (maybe there's more of her next week and she was fliming that episode?), that Steven Moffat wrote some of the Clara/Doctor relationship bits for continuity and that it was Peter Capaldi who added the jelly babies!

More on his blog.

Russell · October 13, 2014 6:03 am

Liberty wrote:
Fantastic episode last night - another of my favourites! The writer, Jamie Matheson, did a great AMA on Reddit after the show.

That's cool, hadn't seen his… thanks! Also neat to hear the tough back-and-forth that is being a tv writer, especially with him starting much more complicated, and how great Steven was at making him simplify (you do only have 45 minutes, after all), and slowly making his way up to a show like DW. Absolutely wonderful, tight, quick-moving episode, with the usual twists and several awesome references.
That said…

Loved the change of scene (finally, space again! and on a historically classic/themed train, no less!) Loved all the episode/past Doctor references (did you get them? ). Loved keeping it creative, what with being in an enclosed hard-to-hide-in space, of only the victim being able to see the monster. Usual good show on Capaldi's part of the intellectual/harsher Doctor.

Only wasn't so crazy about a story quirk some episode's structure falls into, with letting the viewer have very little ideas to figure how the problem was going to be 'solved', then wham, all of the sudden the hero has an epiphany of just the right info, somehow, near the end, and it's all over. Granted, kind of cool in a twisted way to come up with the 'evil computer assembling a monster-fixing team'. Don't suppose those who died went to "Heaven"…..

And after last episode's emotional weight (we didn't really discuss Kill The Moon's twistiness with that, did we?) it was also a little bit of whiplash to have Clara (understandably, I felt) take a breather to come to terms with things, then want a last moment to end things with. And is promptly nudged by very truthful comments from Maisie/Doctor about why she really jumped back in the TARDIS, get disturbed by the Doctor's harshness again, realize oh yeah, he really does care, he's just harsh about it, then giggle and go 'oh, sorry about that, I just had an emotion, no need to discuss things, let's go see more!' Anyone else feel that was awfully quick? And right after talking otherwise with Danny! And almost like they're doing a bit of a rollercoaster with her as a point about how it affects the life of those who follow the Doctor, and leading up to a definite 'goodbye' when something worse forces her to choose again?

Last edited by Russell (October 13, 2014 6:07 am)

sj4iy · October 13, 2014 12:40 pm

I really enjoyed that episode. I wouldn't say the writing has been terribly even this season, but I am enjoying it, nevertheless. This one was pretty tightly done and fast-paced, so it was interesting to watch. Really interested in next week for sure...the previews have been very enticing this season XD

Davina · October 13, 2014 1:41 pm

I thought this was a really strong episode. Tightly written, genuinely scary. My only rub was I didn't think Frank Skinner was particularly good in his part. Somethng about his delivery of lines at times mae it seem as if he was acting, which of course he was, but I don't want to ever feel that.

Liberty · October 19, 2014 8:19 pm

I'm really impressed with the new writer, Jamie Mathieson. This latest episode managed to be funny and scary at once - loved it!

And a locked room mystery too!

He had an AMA on Twitter today and there's more on his blog.

sj4iy · October 19, 2014 10:06 pm

Loved this episode. I think this season started off rocky, but it's been gaining steam this last half and is really coming together.

Whisky · October 19, 2014 10:29 pm

Finally started watching Dr. Who, and thanks to your suggestions I apparently started with the right kind of episodes, because I liked it. Never thought it would scare me so much, though :D Had nightmares from one episode, that's really embarassing :D

sj4iy · October 19, 2014 10:37 pm

Whisky wrote:
Finally started watching Dr. Who, and thanks to your suggestions I apparently started with the right kind of episodes, because I liked it. Never thought it would scare me so much, though :D Had nightmares from one episode, that's really embarassing :D

It's not embarrassing at all...some episodes are really scary. Any episode with the Weeping Angels freaks me out. Glad you are enjoying it!

Davina · October 21, 2014 9:12 am

I enjoyed the latest episode, very Alice in Wonderland. And Peter rocks those Doctor Martins!