besleybean wrote:

Why would John think Sherlock wasn't interested in him?
And even then, why wouldn't he marry another man?

 
" It's not men, its just him. It's only him."

Snootiegirl99 wrote:

Liberty wrote:

Snootiegirl99 wrote:

I wonder what it says about John and Sherlock's friendship that

A) Sherlock doesn't even try to run Mary off like all the other girlfriends (and she likes him as well).
B) Sherlock is all set to die in HLV but then the thought of letting John down and leaving John vulnerable brings him back.

A. I don't think he deliberately runs off other girlfriends.  That's partly John's doing as well.  There's that scene in ASiB where Sherlock can't remember which girlfriend John's with (the boring teacher), but John also forgets which one she is, and that's what drives her off. 

B. I think he's very protective, and has protected and saved John before - I think it's in character that that would be a driver for him.  It's the same person who sacrificed two years of his life and went through hell to save John (and others, but John's his main pressure point).

 
Yes, but what do those things say about their friendship and how deep it is?

Sherlock simply accepts Mary because she accepts him. She wants him in John's life whereas none of the others did. And her reflection of their connection is important to building their relationship in the story arc.

And is it only a protective instinct, or is it more? Sacrificing two years and going through torture says it's a deeper trust and connection than just a protective feeling.

My opinion is that they are in love whether it's a physically-manifested love or not.

I'm still thinking about Sherlock accepting Mary in terms of what he knows/suspects, but Mary is John's pressure point after all.  She's important to John and the other ones haven't been.  (And also they have an established relationship when Sherlock returns).  I'm just saying that I don't think Sherlock really did go out of his way to drive off the others, and I don't think they really tried to drive him off either.  He seemed to be growing to like Sarah, for instance.

I'm not going to quibble too much over being in love versus loving each other.  As I've said, I think loving a friend can feel like being in love, so I don't think there has to be a distinct difference, unless you feel that being in love has to include a sexual element.  (I don't think there's a sexual element there).  I do think coming back from the dead really is about protecting John.  I'm not saying that that's all he feels for John, obviously, but that that's why he's so motivated to come back - to protect him.  That's what it feels like to me.  
 

The thing is that Sherlock does so much more for John than for everyone else, Mrs Hudson and Lestrade included. He helps him lose the crutch, chooses to stay with John at the pool, he fakes his death, he goes out of his way to prepare the wedding and save Sholto's life, he comes back from death and shoots Magnussen (because he surely does it not just for Mary if at all). 
Just imagine for a moment that John was a woman. No one would say, oh look, he is her best friend and tries to protect her. You would say, gosh, he must love her very much to do all that. 

Last edited by SusiGo (September 4, 2014 7:14 pm)

I agree with you about Sherlock's love being the selfless. For me this is one of the beauties of the show - selfless love versus selfish love. Protecting another's life and happiness at all cost versus ensuring that you keep the other's love. 
I am convinced that Sherlock's love for John is stronger than Mary's. And I really hope that one day John will realise that as well. 

tonnaree wrote:

besleybean wrote:

Is this not a bit of a soap opera plot?

 
The way the story is executed is what makes it not a soap opera.

 
My husband says SportsCenter is soap opera for men. Soap operas are just stories that go as far as possible to tittilate.

SusiGo wrote:

The thing is that Sherlock does so much more for John than for everyone else, Mrs Hudson and Lestrade included. He helps him lose the crutch, chooses to stay with John at the pool, he fakes his death, he goes out of his way to prepare the wedding and save Sholto's life, he comes back from death and shoots Magnussen (because he surely does it not just for Mary if at all). 
Just imagine for a moment that John was a woman. No one would say, oh look, he is her best friend and tries to protect her. You would say, gosh, he must love her very much to do all that. 

 
Y. E. S.

RIght, it doesn't matter to Sherlock anyway 

Oh I think John knows...both at Appledore and on the tarmac.

I have nothing of substance to add, but just reading this thread makes me feel like I'm glowing with its warmth.

I knew there was a reason I loved this show.

Liberty wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

I agree with you about Sherlock's love being the selfless. For me this is one of the beauties of the show - selfless love versus selfish love. Protecting another's life and happiness at all cost versus ensuring that you keep the other's love. 
I am convinced that Sherlock's love for John is stronger than Mary's. And I really hope that one day John will realise that as well. 

I think that if the books are anything to go by, Sherlock's relationship with John will be the enduring one.  To be fair to Mary, there isn't a point where she has to sacrifice herself to save John, so we don't see how she would react.

Well, I think we get an idea of how she might react. She risked killing his best friend to protect her own happiness even though she knew exactly how much Sherlock's faked death has hurt John.
Meaning, she risked hurting John to avoid emotional hurt for herself.