Of course they can. But they do not use clichéd words. And the actors can make very much out of simple sentences. "I heard you." 

SusiGo wrote:

Well, before the fall Sherlock has usually given the impression of a man who does not talk about his personal life or feelings, going so far as pretending he has none (which of course it not true). Think of him saying in ASiB "John Watson thinks love is a mystery to me". He has built up this image. "Alone is what I have. Alone protects me." Molly at least gets a glimpse when talking about him looking sad when John cannot see him but as for the others - they do not know about his inner life or accept his absolute reluctance to show anything other than his intellectual side. 

When he returns in series 3 he gives no sign that he wishes to talk about these two years. And John expressly asks him why he faked his death and does not get the correct answer. Believe me, I wish Sherlock would have said "I did it for you, and Mrs Hudson, and Lestrade" but he chooses not to. And at the end of TEH John asks how he did it and again does not get a truthful answer. 

Therefore I cannot blame the other characters for not asking. He clearly does not want to talk about it, not even with John. He chooses Anderson of all people to reveal his - true or false - story of how he did it.
They could have gone for all sorts of things - Molly/John/Mrs Hudson/Lestrade asking him about those two years, someone seeing the wounds on his back, whatever. They did not. So this is a deliberate choice on the writers' side. It is "Alone is what I have" all over again. Sherlock may have friends now, even a best friend, and yet he cannot/does not want to reveal his feelings.

Think of HLV - we, the viewers, see what happens in his mind when he is dying. John does not. He never realises Sherlock came back for him. Which is quite tragic in a way. But it is at the core of Sherlock's character and the fault of the other characters. 
  

I think it is in Sherlock´s character to downplay the severity of his wounds and hurts or to pretend that nothing happened to him. Thus far, he made his hurts secret in almost every episode that preceded S3:

In "Study in pink" he almost swallowed the poisonous pill in front of John´s very eyes. That didn´t stop him from claiming that he was not in danger, he was just waiting for John´s arrival (an obvious lie).

In "The Blind Banker" we had the best example of this Sherlock´s attitude. He was almost choked to death by the Chinese gangster, yet the moment the danger passed away and he was released, he immediately started to pretend that he´s all right despite being given away by his muffled, croaking voice. He took special care that John wouldn´t notice something amiss.

In "Scandal in Belgravia" he declared that he doesn´t need John´s help while heavily being drugged, so much so, that he couldn´t stand on his own.

In "The Hound" we had that famous scene of "I have no ffffriends!"

In "The Fall" Sherlock stated "Alone protect me!" and confided his problems only to Mycroft, keeping his other friends in the dark about the sheer extent of the imminent danger hanging over his head.

So it is not so surprising that he did not speak about his stay in the torture chamber in TEH, that he downplayed the severity of Mary´s shot in HLV, took his friend´s slaps without mentioning them again and conveniently forgot to mention that he is sent to a death-mission into the Eastern Europe.

I have often complained about whining Sherlock in "sick-fic" fanfiction and this is the reason for it - Sherlock never does that. When something serious happens to him, he clams up and tries to save his face by acting nonshalantly about the matter, he never attracts the attention of others to his pains. He is a proud man, unwilling to let the others see his weaknesses. It is therefore a really hard work for his friends to notice that Sherlock suffers, since outwardly, he seems as if no pain and hurt can ever touch him.

On the other hand, I don´t believe his friends were left completely in the dark about his actions in TRF. At the very end of HLV, John mentions to Mary that Moriarty killed himself with a shot to his head. He can only know this detail from Sherlock, since nobody else witnessing this event was present there when it happened. It means that John and Sherlock spoke about the matter offscreen, at least one time and probably cleared some of their issues then.
 

nakahara wrote:

I think it is in Sherlock´s character to downplay the severity of his wounds and hurts or to pretend that nothing happened to him. Thus far, he made his hurts secret in almost every episode that preceded S3:

[Here follows an excellent list of all those instances.]

When something serious happens to him, he clams up and tries to save his face by acting nonshalantly about the matter, he never attracts the attention of others to his pains. He is a proud man, unwilling to let the others see his weaknesses. It is therefore a really hard work for his friends to notice that Sherlock suffers, since outwardly, he seems as if no pain and hurt can ever touch him. 

 Exactly, exactly. He's proud as the devil.

And isn't it admirable? Isn't it noble and heroic, the way he doesn't want to bother other people with his own pain, be it physical or emotional? Don't we all love that, don't we all want to see as much of that as possible?

Which is, incidentally, the reason why you really, really don't have to worry about the writers subscribing to the Tall Poppy Syndrome and ever making that part of the character or story arc. It's not going to happen. On the contrary.

Those of us that like seeing Sherlock suffer because he suffers so beautifully don't want to see him ultimately demeaned and broken, of course not! Why would we? We don't subscribe to perverse sadism, you know. We subscribe, just like you do, to the admiration of a true hero.

It's just that we think his heroism comes out all the better when we see him suffering pain and hardships and struggling through it all to come out, at the end, not unscathed maybe, but matured and even more heroic than before. THAT's why I enjoy seeing Sherlock getting hit (by the right people in the right situation), so I can admire him all the more for how well he takes it.


Just in case anyone still thinks that NOT disliking the violence at the reunion automatically means that you actually hate the character and want to see him destroyed.

Gah. Now I'm getting a bit emotional, I think. I'd better go away now.

Last edited by La Jolie (September 4, 2014 9:42 am)

nakahara wrote:

On the other hand, I don´t believe his friends were left completely in the dark about his actions in TRF. At the very end of HLV, John mentions to Mary that Moriarty killed himself with a shot to his head. He can only know this detail from Sherlock, since nobody else witnessing this event was present there when it happened. It means that John and Sherlock spoke about the matter offscreen, at least one time and probably cleared some of their issues then.

Maybe it's a stupid question, maybe I've missed something, maybe I'm having a total blackout, but: What happened to Moriarty's corpse anyway? Somebody must have found it. Moriarty's people? Mycroft's people? Do we know? 

As for Sherlock being a proud man: I totally agree. To me the fact that he doesn't ever mention what happened to him during those two years in TEH always meant that he doesn't want anynone to feel guilty. I'm sure John, Mrs. Hudson and Lestrade would be equally shocked if they knew the details of what Sherlock had to endure because he wanted them to be safe. And I'm also sure that Sherlock doesn't want that. He wants no thanks, he doesn't want anyone to feel guilty or sorry. He's just doing these things because he can, because he feels those are the right things to do. When it comes to such essential things, his moral compass seems to be working pretty properly. 

La Jolie, yes, you're absolutely right. A hero is even more of a hero when you occasionally see him stumble and suffer and also fail. How boring would it be if he always, always came out on top rather effortlessly? Seeing this side of him makes for some really good character development.
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (September 4, 2014 10:15 am)

La Jolie wrote:

nakahara wrote:

I think it is in Sherlock´s character to downplay the severity of his wounds and hurts or to pretend that nothing happened to him. Thus far, he made his hurts secret in almost every episode that preceded S3:

[Here follows an excellent list of all those instances.]

When something serious happens to him, he clams up and tries to save his face by acting nonshalantly about the matter, he never attracts the attention of others to his pains. He is a proud man, unwilling to let the others see his weaknesses. It is therefore a really hard work for his friends to notice that Sherlock suffers, since outwardly, he seems as if no pain and hurt can ever touch him. 

 Exactly, exactly. He's proud as the devil.

And isn't it admirable? Isn't it noble and heroic, the way he doesn't want to bother other people with his own pain, be it physical or emotional? Don't we all love that, don't we all want to see as much of that as possible?

Ha, thank you, now I understand why John´s "drama queen" in TSoT bothers me so much - because he is exactly the contrary when things get serious. Sherlock can throw his little fits and sulk quite impressively, but if it comes to real hardships and sufferings he carries them all alone. 

That´s what he chooses to do, so maybe you can´t really blame John for not knowing. But I get the feeling that Molly is still able to see beyond this "indestructible" facade he likes to put on.. and I find it a bit disappointing for me that the person closest to him whom he loves the most shows no such signs of understanding/ caring.. (just to clarify, when I wrote about "people" in my posts I always referred to characters in the show, not to the audience.)

So much I want to write, so little time.. I hope to come back to it later!
 

Last edited by Zatoichi (September 4, 2014 11:46 am)

mrshouse wrote:

You're probably right. Now that I come to think of it they wrote: " I was so alone and I owe you so much... One more miracle, Sherlock...for me, don't ...be...dead"
Yes, they could do it!
*gross sobbing*

 
And how much emotion was in the words "I heard you."??????

*thud*

Yes, Susi, that's it exactly. Just think about the beginning of TGG... shooting the wall, sulking away on the sofa, theatrically stomping over the coffee table and then to the window after John has left... that's what I call a drama queen! And I love every moment of it...!
But yes, in TSoT... I still think John wanted to push some buttons to make Sherlock solve it, because he was bloody scared to lose Sholto... after losing Sherlock in TRF... 

Last edited by SolarSystem (September 4, 2014 1:00 pm)

Yeah... good intentions and all that. John messes it up, and then of course Mary has to chime in, as well. This scene doesn't feel right on more than just one level.

Zatoichi wrote:

That´s what he chooses to do, so maybe you can´t really blame John for not knowing. But I get the feeling that Molly is still able to see beyond this "indestructible" facade he likes to put on.. and I find it a bit disappointing for me that the person closest to him whom he loves the most shows no such signs of understanding/ caring..
 

But if you think about it, Molly only noticed his worry and pain in TRF because Sherlock underestimated her (just like Moriarty) and didn´t consider her observant enough, so he let his guard slip around her. He certainly kept his guard around John and Mrs. Hudson much tighter, so they wouldn´t realise there´s some shady thing happening behind their backs. So I wouldn´t blame any of them that they didn´t manage to notice anything. Molly was simply lucky - observant enought to notice Sherlock´s discomfort, smitten with him so that she didn´t stop hovering around him (and so being at the right place when he put his guard down) and seemingly insignificant so that she remained in Sherlock´s presence unnoticed and thus was able to read his face. She was at the good place in a good time.

Last edited by nakahara (September 4, 2014 2:28 pm)

This is true, and thinking about it we are not even sure that John doesn´t have his own thoughts and concerns about Sherlock - but it would totally be a no-no between guys to adress it in any way. So if it´s exactly the way Sherlock wants it to be I should probably stop being sentimental about it, too.. 

Last edited by Zatoichi (September 4, 2014 3:01 pm)