BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Some things that are puzzling me

nakahara · September 2, 2014 1:07 pm

SolarSystem wrote:
But did she really pick Sherlock in the first place? She was chief bridesmaid, he was best man, they naturally ended up side by side on various occasions, I would assume. If she had just been another wedding guest, they probably never would have spoken to each other - unless of course one of them (or both of them?) really intended to use the other one.

Well, Sherlock was just standing beside her disinterestedly and suddenly she was all over him, flirting, pinching him, taking his arm.... hmmmm.

Last edited by nakahara (September 2, 2014 1:08 pm)

La Jolie · September 2, 2014 2:05 pm

nakahara wrote:
Don´t you find it strange that she picked the weirdest guy in the room for her flirting?

OK, forget me waiting for Season 4, here I go again -

I really don't feel the need for any additional reasons for Janine chatting up Sherlock at the wedding...

I agree with Susi that she regarded him as a challenge because he usually doesn't respond to flirting at all. I can see how she'd think that it would be either 1. fun (because there is something very comical in how you can apparently unsettle him by talking about sex) or 2. exciting - you know, the mystery man always making us girls dream that we're the one person he'd be different with. Or both.

But thirdly, I also think there is his celebrity status to be considered. "The famous Mr Holmes!" I think that was a big, big part of the attraction, the way it usually is for people.

I challenge all you ladies in here - including those not already completely head-over-heels in love with him - to picture, for a moment, that you're a really pretty and clever girl (I know you all are, anyway ) and you're bridesmaid at a wedding where Benedict Cumberbatch is the best man, and he happens to be single at the moment. I don't think there is even one among us could resist making at least one small attempt at getting his attention. I certainly couldn't.

Last edited by La Jolie (September 2, 2014 2:09 pm)

SolarSystem · September 2, 2014 2:22 pm

nakahara wrote:
SolarSystem wrote:
But did she really pick Sherlock in the first place? She was chief bridesmaid, he was best man, they naturally ended up side by side on various occasions, I would assume. If she had just been another wedding guest, they probably never would have spoken to each other - unless of course one of them (or both of them?) really intended to use the other one.
Well, Sherlock was just standing beside her disinterestedly and suddenly she was all over him, flirting, pinching him, taking his arm.... hmmmm.

Well, she obviously was looking for a man, so Sherlock was the first opportunity. If somebody else had been standing beside her at that very moment, she probably would have been all over that man, as well.

nakahara · September 2, 2014 2:25 pm

I still consider her suspicious, but I see your point.

Liberty · September 2, 2014 2:29 pm

It's established in the series that he's attractive to women. Molly and Irene, who are attractive women themselves, both fall for him in a big way. Leaving aside whether Janine might have had another agenda, as chief bridesmaid, it's normal to have to make conversation with the best man at a wedding anyway, and, as she says, traditional to get off with each other if you're both single and attracted . That's what she's joking about. It looks like they don't start talking until after the actual ceremony and the photos, so it's not even as if she grabbed him the first chance she got. She hardly forces him into anything, but just gives the signals that she's available. He could have avoided her most of the time if he'd wanted to. And in the end, she doesn't push it, but goes for the sure thing.

They must have left it open for things to continue, though (exchanged numbers?), because it seems like Sherlock doesn't go through John and Mary to get in contact with her again.

How did he spot the erectile dysfunction?

Last edited by Liberty (September 2, 2014 2:29 pm)

besleybean · September 2, 2014 3:52 pm

I think it's just a bit of fun.

REReader · September 2, 2014 5:10 pm

besleybean wrote:
I think it's just a bit of fun.

Yes, like being able to tell a good Chinese restaurant by the bottom half of the door handle!

Somewhere above was the comment that we know Magnussen has something on Jeanine--where do we know it from? So far as I could see in the episodes, the only hold CAM has over her is that she's his employee--presumably very well paid--and has the same hold any employer has over an employee in these rotten economic times, that of being able to fire her...plus, in his case, the no-need-to-say-it additional threat of being able to make it very, very difficult for her to get another job if he wants, since he is openly so influential.

Last edited by REReader (September 2, 2014 5:17 pm)

tonnaree · September 2, 2014 5:37 pm

"I challenge all you ladies in here - including those not already completely head-over-heels in love with him - to picture, for a moment, that you're a really pretty and clever girl (I know you all are, anyway ) and you're bridesmaid at a wedding where Benedict Cumberbatch is the best man, and he happens to be single at the moment. I don't think there is even one among us could resist making at least one small attempt at getting his attention. I certainly couldn't."

They'd have to pry me off him with a crowbar.

Liberty · September 2, 2014 5:39 pm

@ REReader, he made those comments about her being able to keep her eye open. Maybe she just put up with it to keep the job, but maybe Magnusson was blackmailing her. It's quite an extreme thing to put up with for a job, even a very good one. I also just suspect that he'd have more fun hitting on something more personal, a pressure point particular to her. But we don't know. You could be right, and Sherlock was her way out all along (planning to sell the story for the money to leave the job).

Last edited by Liberty (September 2, 2014 5:41 pm)

RavenMorganLeigh · September 2, 2014 7:11 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I think we get this again and again - Sherlock not realising how much he matters to John. Just think of TRF - he had no idea why John would be affected when people believed him to be a fake. He has suppressed his feelings for years, has been trained by his brother that having no feelings is an advantage, that only the mind matters. We have no idea what he was subjected to during his absence apart from the torture in Serbia, but I suppose it was not love and warmth. Then he comes back, finds that he cannot return to his old life, that he is alone in the flat, that he has been replaced in a way. Is hit three times by John. I think the six months or so between TEH and TSoT have not been sufficient to cure him of the feeling of emotional inadequacy. He is convinced that John has all the qualities he himself lacks, even if it is not true. Sherlock has never learned to cope with his emotions and to realise that he is capable of feeling, that he has a heart. He starts to do so in TEH but he is by no means at the end of his development.

Yep. And remember, in TBB, Sebastian laughing about how "we all hated him" as uni? Remember how he pretended not to have been clever? That most people only want him for what he's able to do? He's not a Vulcan, he's damaged.

La Jolie · September 2, 2014 8:40 pm

See, tonnaree, that's what I meant.

As for Magnussen's comment about flicking Janine's eye, I've always taken it to refer to him punishing Janine for getting involved with Sherlock and letting him into his office (although it saved his life, but still) and for generally not realising that Sherlock was just using her. So he doesn't really have anything on her in terms of blackmail. We know he just likes to humiliate people who annoy him just for the sake of it.

As for Liberty's slightly indiscreet enquiry, I think it was the cowboy boots. I'm not sure whether they're generally associated with erectile dysfunction (I don't know anyone who wears them well enough to ask, you know ) , but we see that guy through Sherlock's eyes and he arrives at that particular deduction precisely when his eyes arrive at the guy's boots. They are rather fancy, so maybe he's compensating.

Last edited by La Jolie (September 2, 2014 8:41 pm)

Liberty · September 2, 2014 10:09 pm

Cowboy boots? We have been warned. I don't get it though - overcompensating could mean a size problem rather than that ... I was wondering about any medical problems which might be associated with erectile dysfunction and would be obvious. Yes, I'm overthinking. I just love it when Sherlock's deductions are explained.

I'd thought that Magnusson was expecting Sherlock to arrive at his office (he'd set it up by feeding him the information that he'd be out at a meeting), and that Janine was playing her part in the whole thing by letting him in. But I suppose that even if that's true, he doesn't need a reason to be cruel.

besleybean · September 3, 2014 5:48 am

Cruel?

Liberty · September 3, 2014 6:47 am

I mean Magnusson, if that wasn't clear. He's cruel for the fun of it, isn't he?

Snootiegirl99 · September 3, 2014 2:59 pm

I took the surgery comment to mean that she has the precision of a surgeon with a gun. She's a crack shot. A sniper or something akin. What she did was carefully orchestrated to not deliver a fatal shot to a vital organ.

mrshouse · September 3, 2014 3:05 pm

Snootiegirl99 wrote:
I took the surgery comment to mean that she has the precision of a surgeon with a gun. She's a crack shot. A sniper or something akin. What she did was carefully orchestrated to not deliver a fatal shot to a vital organ.

Yes, I dread that the Mofftiss want us to swallow it this way. I hate it. And I don't want to go on with this in future series.

Snootiegirl99 · September 3, 2014 3:13 pm

mrshouse wrote:
Snootiegirl99 wrote:
I took the surgery comment to mean that she has the precision of a surgeon with a gun. She's a crack shot. A sniper or something akin. What she did was carefully orchestrated to not deliver a fatal shot to a vital organ.

Yes, I dread that the Mofftiss want us to swallow it this way. I hate it. And I don't want to go on with this in future series.

I don't understand what's bad about it. Genuinely, I'm confused. It goes to painting her as a former CIA killer, doesn't it?

mrshouse · September 3, 2014 3:16 pm

Snootie, this was not about a job she had to deliver for her government and the sake of her country. And one could consider that bad enough. She shoot for her very own sake, an unarmed men who had just offered to help her sorting her butt out of the trouble. I very much see the point here.

Zatoichi · September 3, 2014 4:07 pm

Also as in every body the vessels run differently there just is no such thing as a safe or even "surgical" shot.. especially the liver is a very dangerous spot for fatal bloodloss.

besleybean · September 3, 2014 5:46 pm

Well the fact is:
he survived and lived to fight another day.