You make a point here, mrshouse. And not just one 

I don't think the two statements are incompatible.  I don't think he's denying now that they love each other or that the story is about their relationship.   He's just objecting to the idea that if you don't see the characters as gay, you must be homophobic .. which also implies that the writers are homophobic if they don't turn the characters gay, the actors are homophobic if they don't play them as gay, etc. 

I might be wrong, but I feel that calling it the gayest story implies that the characters aren't overtly gay.  It's the kind of thing you might say about, for example, the 80s ITV series of Brideshead Revisited (where it was implied), but not about the 2008 film of Brideshead Revisited (where it was explicit).  If that makes any sense.

Last edited by Liberty (September 1, 2014 4:36 pm)

Yes, I've had the dubious pleasure of sitting in a public lecture, listening to the ' queer bait' crap.

And bb, you said yourself before you would not like them to make jokes about it.

Sorry, I think Susi's reply was first 

Well, as far as I remember Amanda was more open about Johnlock than Martin and Benedict and even  joked about it on Twitter. And the fact that Mary as a character is disliked by many fans is not just a knee-jerk reaction by Johnlockers but mainly due to the way she is written (which is no excuse for bashing Amanda as a person.)

I understand what you mean and there might be some truth to it. They may feel under pressure when they hear that so many people have these expectations. But on the other hand the expectations are not there without a reason. I am not talking about the I'm-not-gay thing but all the other hints they served us in series 3 and which cannot be explained away as a joke. Just look at Sherlock's face on the dance floor and on the tarmac and his return from death for John and tell me that this is "mocking". 

SusiGo wrote:

I understand what you mean and there might be some truth to it. They may feel under pressure when they hear that so many people have these expectations. But on the other hand the expectations are not there without a reason. I am not talking about the I'm-not-gay thing but all the other hints they served us in series 3 and which cannot be explained away as a joke. Just look at Sherlock's face on the dance floor and on the tarmac and his return from death for John and tell me that this is "mocking". 

But ... they love each other, don't they?  An awful lot can be explained by that. 

We all know Sherlock avoids love and sentiment, but he seems to put friendship somewhere outside that.   His romantic feelings are channelled into John.   I'm sure many of us have done simliar at some point in our lives, with a friend.  I know I have.  Perhaps, Sherlock's feelings seem more extreme because he doesn't allow another outlet.  But they don't seem sexual, to me, anyway.  

I was prepared to have my mind changed in S3, but it hasn't happened yet.  Maybe in S4 .

My favourite quite from Amanda Abbington so far:

“We’ve found a hus- er, a wife for Sher- um … Watson.” 

(source:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piZdrK-858Q&feature=youtu.be)

I agree with what Liberty says.

I think that the Johnlock thing is becoming more and more annoying in the way that if you don't agree with johnlock you are homophobic, and you clearly don't understand the show. You can't have "fun" with that anymore.

And I think that's what is different now than in 2011. Because in 2011 people were like "Johnlock or not, I love this show and I have fun imagining Johnlock... we have fun and it's ok, you don't see it? All right..." There was memes about Mrs Hudson shipping it more than we do and we were laghing at it and we were having fun.

It has become (for some people): "if the show dosen't end up showing Sherlock and John having hot sex in the shower, it's because the BBC are just a bunch of queerbaiting homophobic piece of shit... they are mocking the LGBT community!!!" "If the creators don't come up with the version I imaginated, I will burn my DVD's and send them crap by mail!"  and I'm just barely exagerating! And that is totally disturbing!

I read Johnlock fanfiction, but I see it as it is... a fanfiction. I have fun with Johnlock but some people don't have "fun" anymore. It has become a political statement witch is: Sherlock has to be about John and Sherlock being gay. Because if they don't end up beeing gay, the whole show is queerbaiting. You are either with me or an homophobe.

For a time, I was reading The-loudest-subtext-in-television tumblr, and some others. I tougth it was fun. There was good metas. It didn't seems like it was taken too seriously. But I was wrong, I was so wrong. You totally can't disagree with her/him/them (i don't know and I don't care). Johnlock is the most serious thing in the whole universe. And if you disagree with her/his/their analyse of a particular scene, you are wrong. Not just wrong, you are a stupid dumbass, homophobic asshole... nothing less. So I stay as far as possible from this tumblr... and a lot of others...

The show, Sherlock, is not about the show anymore, it's about Johnlock and how it will become Johnlock. And I think it's becoming weighty for some fans, for the actors, creators, writers and everyone else working on the show. And even more if it's not what they had planned for it. I was (and I still am), perfectly ok with the platonic thing between John and Sherlock (They love each other of course, but as friends). And I had (and still have) no reason to believe that they are all lying. And if if Sherlock and John end up together at the end I will still be completely ok with that. (but for some reason no, I won't, but yes, but that's for an other post...)

Last edited by Kenogami (September 4, 2014 11:43 pm)