ShadyShapeshifter wrote:

I’ll start with Sherlock in this scene.
To me, the whole scene felt very sad. My first impression is that Sherlock really believed that he wouldn’t come back this time. Maybe he is too good at manipulating me, but he seemed to be resonating with feelings here.

There are a lot of parallels between the end of TRF and HLV. I hate the first and I love the second for precisely this reason, that here it's obvious that Sherlock's feelings are genuine. He knows that his time has run out, that he's done what he had to do, and that he is going to pay the ultimate price for his sacrifice. "To the very best of times, John," leaves me blubbering like an idiot.

I don’t think that he was convinced that Mycroft would save him in the end.

I think the word here is could, not would because...

I never quite get what they expect from each other. They really have a difficult relationship, don’t they?

They do, but in the smoking scene at Christmas, Mycroft told in his brother that he loves him ("Your loss would break my heart."). I finally understood their dynamic, even though it's spelled out at the end of ASIP; Mycroft loves Sherlock and looks out for him. Sherlock resents feeling smothered.

So I think that Sherlock knows that if Mycroft is calling this a suicide mission, there's probably genuinely nothing Mycroft can do to save him.

But instead of being focused on himself, Sherlock seemed to be absolutely tuned to John’s emotions. He is the one that faces his doom here, yet it is him that reassured John in this scene, not vice versa. He tried to shield John from the true impact of this exile and didn’t want John to lose it just right then and there.

Quite a difference from the end TRF. Sherlock has grown so much in series 3...

John on the other hand *sigh*. I really like John, but this season left me feeling a bit disappointed.

Me too.

On top of that, he really didn’t tell Sherlock anything during their goodbye. Nothing to cling to. He just reacted. To me, he seemed very passive.

Yes! Thank you! You just identified what bugs me so much about John on the tarmac. I once mistakenly called him on his 'lack of emotions', but that's not it at all. You can tell he's anguished, but he's not articulating any of that.

Maybe he didn’t even consider Sherlock’s feelings here. Just like he didn’t notice that Sherlock was nearly collapsing in Bakerstreet (he is a bloody doctor, how could he not notice this?).

There are no words to describe how angry John makes me in that confrontation scene before the collapse.

Even though I have been shown the emotional arch of Sherlock and seem to get a better understanding of him, John seemingly failed to see what was obvious to me. And that left me feeling unsatisfied. Shouldn’t there be some onscreen acknowledgement that Sherlock did kill a person for John?

This goes right back to my claim that John needs a better therapist. At the very least, a very honest conversation about the reasons for Sherlock pretending to kill himself. I doubt that John gets that, that Sherlock was sacrificing himself to save John. If John hasn't processed that, how can we expect him to process Sherlock doing it a second time?

And because I see so much more emotion from Sherlock, I want John to see that, too and recognize it. But more often than not, he just didn’t. This left me feeling a bit unsatisfied with John this season.

Series 3 John seems to either always be passive or aggressive. There's no room for anything else. Again, get the man a better therapist!

 He took Sherlock hand, shook it and had nothing left to say to “the very best of times”. Shouldn’t he have initiated something in this scene?

His reaction to the proferred hand is very much, 'A handshake, not a hug?!' and he still shakes Sherlock's hand. I was really hoping he'd pull Sherlock in for a hug and when he didn't, that told me just how broken their relationship.

Excellent analysis.

Mary

Thank you for your interest and your input
@ maryagrawatson
Concerning TRF: Really? I love every second of TRF. But like I said, I always fall for Sherlock’s emotions, so I still believe that not all his emotions were an act. I don*t think that solution “Lazarus” was his preferred method to survive this situation. Look at the countdown between Moriarty and Sherlock. Moriarty was convinced that Sherlock would do anything and everything to get everything out of Moriarty he needed. If Moriarty would have doubted that, he wouldn’t have shot himself there and then. Without Moriarty, Sherlock had to quickly decide which of the plans would provide protection for his friends and the possibility to dismantle the network. So, Lazarus it was. On a certain level, I guess Sherlock did know that his death would have an impact on John. So he did try and convince him he was a fake. Maybe he genuinely thought that would make things easier for people who cared about him. Of course, like we see in the first episode of season 3, he underestimates quite what an impact his death had on John. But he knew that John would care. And I think he realized that he was leaving his one best friend here for some time. So I do think that Sherlock was upset during that phone call. Of course he wasn’t as devastated and as emotional as in season 3. But I would say that we did see him care, even during that phone call, just not to the extent that we saw now. And there is another topic I could endlessly discuss Perhaps this is partly because I’ve never before discussed this episode at all.
Back to this topic, I also feel that his emotions are completely genuine in HLV and that’s why his heartfelt “to the very best of times” breaks my heart.
Concerning Mycroft and Sherlock: Yes, Mycroft told Sherlock “You’re loss would break my heart”. I absolutely believe him, but does Sherlock completely believe it? In the first episode, he even told Mycroft that he enjoyed watching his little brother being beaten. While this could be discussed, Sherlock didn’t acknowledge the fact that Mycroft did go undercover for him. Doesn’t that speak volumes? Or is this some kind of reproachful conversation that truly means “Thanks for saving me. You’re welcome, i would always try and save you”? There goes another discussion topic, Mycroft and Sherlock’s relationship
A better therapist for John, I never thought about that He should have listened to Mycroft, he told him that during their first meeting  ;)
Concerning the handshake: I would have loved John hugging Sherlock. It would have been something. But I could have gone without it and just a handshake if John would have said or done anything else. Just accepting the offered hand was just so frustratingly passive.
 
@ nakahara
I can imagine John feeling too helpless and feeling the seriousness of the loss. But he still was the one that could safely stay behind. I felt like he should have tried to reassure Sherlock in some way. He seemed to fail to see the whole picture here. Sherlock was the one needing something to cling to, not just himself. Of course he is entitled to his own feelings and I’m sure he was quite overwhelmed. But that just led to his passivity instead of any gesture. It’s sad and part of the reason why this scene always gets to me

I watched this last night.
I have no doubt John knows Sherlock did evertthing for him.
He is grateful for Mary being safe, but devastated at the loss of Sherlock...well, until he comes back!

ShadyShapeshifter wrote:

Thank you for your interest and your input
@ maryagrawatson
Concerning TRF: Really?

Yup. TEH made TRF even worse for me because there's no resolution. I still have no idea what was going on in TRF and what emotions Sherlock are showing are real, if any. The only thing that resonates with me is John's anguish. Having lived through what he lives through at the end of that episode, that's definitely not motivation to watch TRF again.

Mary

John seems to have problems with procession everything, yes. I do think he is overwhelmed by everything that has happened so far and that’s why he stays passive. Still, the scene feels so sad to me. Yes, John feels devastated by the loss of his friend (again). But it’s Sherlock who is leaving to his impending doom, shouldn’t John at least try and comfort him in some way? Yet he is so conflicted with his own emotions and everything that happened so far that he would have let Sherlock leave just like that. His last words to Sherlock would have been:  we’re not naming our daughter after you. Of course everyone knows that John deeply cares, even Sherlock noticed that John truly cares about him. But any gesture at all would have been nice. Maybe some words beside “the game is over”?  Anything after Sherlock’s heartfelt “to the very best of times”?
@ A lovely light
Do you believe that John was convinced that Sherlock wasn’t really saying goodbye? But that would mean that he wasn’t all that emotional during that particular scene, right? No repressed emotions, more like “well, he’s leaving now, but I know this is not for real, who knows what he’s really up to”? So he just stands there and waits for Sherlock’s sure return? Interesting, I didn’t even consider this until now.
But still, I didn’t perceive the scene like that. John said “The game is over”. Why wouldn’t he try and call Sherlock on his scheme if he honestly believed that he was tricked by him? Something like in TEH, when he initially said “Noooo, this is all a trick”? No, to me, John seemed to be truly sad. I would concur that he was slightly more optimistic that Sherlock could somehow return one day. But he didn’t dismiss the fact that this could be the last time he saw Sherlock Holmes. He surely was hoping against hope that Sherlock would be back, he seems to believe that Sherlock can pull off nearly everything when he really puts his mind on it. Nonetheless, I think he got the gravity of the situation.  Maybe he is a bit unbelieving at this point that Sherlock was gone for good. He saw him die once and survive a shot to the chest recently. But I would put that in the mix of his emotions, it didn’t seem to be his only thought about this goodbye.
 

A lovely light wrote:

One can feel and think two total contradictionally things at the same time. John for example might think that the game is over and at the same time that if anyone can come back, than Sherlock is the one - one thought is rational, the other one is irrational, emotional.

Good point. He got a miracle from "I'm known to be indestructible" Sherlock once, he can have an irrational hope that he would see him again. 

I was angry with him at the reunion, but no, I can't be angry with him here either.
He is distraught.

Ah, the tarmac scene. I remember that it sparked such a heated discussion this winter; people either loved it or hated it. Personally, I absolutely loved it and it reminded me that the seemingly approachable Moffat really is a brilliant writer who deserves his 20 million audience. And of course Martin and Benedict made an absolute beauty out of the scene. Very subtle and powerful, exactly because of what isn't said, but only felt.

It's as if Sherlock and John don't really need words to express what they feel, their communication takes place on another level entirely. And what could you say, honestly, if you knew this was the last time you'd ever see your best friend, what words could possibly express what you feel? I think this scene could not have been more powerful. Any way of trying to capture it in words would kinda diminish it. 

The discussion here, like last time, seems to be centered around the question whether they should have shown more affection to each other. I think they do show affection, and they really see each other. The know they are both uncomfortable with the situation and they're both quite happy to make a joke out of it, but they do understand perfectly well what's happening. 

silverblaze wrote:

Ah, the tarmac scene. I remember that it sparked such a heated discussion this winter; people either loved it or hated it. Personally, I absolutely loved it and it reminded me that the seemingly approachable Moffat really is a brilliant writer who deserves his 20 million audience. And of course Martin and Benedict made an absolute beauty out of the scene. Very subtle and powerful, exactly because of what isn't said, but only felt.

It's as if Sherlock and John don't really need words to express what they feel, their communication takes place on another level entirely. And what could you say, honestly, if you knew this was the last time you'd ever see your best friend, what words could possibly express what you feel? I think this scene could not have been more powerful. Any way of trying to capture it in words would kinda diminish it. 

The discussion here, like last time, seems to be centered around the question whether they should have shown more affection to each other. I think they do show affection, and they really see each other. The know they are both uncomfortable with the situation and they're both quite happy to make a joke out of it, but they do understand perfectly well what's happening. 

This is true, what could they possibly have done or said? Nothing..
It is really a powerful scene and beautifully acted by Martin and Benedict!

And yet..

Seeing Sherlock take off to what seems to be his death sentence while John stays back comforted by Mary, the person who has a great deal of responsibility for that situation, is very hard to digest for me.. it´s not that I´m angry with John himself, it´s just that the whole situation seems so.. unfair? Unsatisfying? A post on tumblr recently pointed out that this is probably what Moffat meant by "devastating cliffhanger", not the fact that Moriarty seems to be back.. sadly I don´t have the link right now, got to look it up again, it was a very good post.