REReader wrote:

mrshouse wrote:

Btw, die anybody read, too, that Amanda got nominated for a critics choice award for HLV? I guess I'll be flamed for this and okokok she did not do bad but an award?? Seriously??? Compared to the performance of Martin and Benedict????
*ducking away and hiding *

Not sure what your point is here? Both Martin and Benedict were nominated for Critics' Choice awards for HLV (best Supporting Actor in a miniseries/movie and Best Actor in same, respectively), and it's hard to see how either could have been nominated as Best Supporting Actress in anything--there's no competition possible there. (None of them won, btw, nor did the episode.)

 
Sorry, but this is a bit funny...
I'm not talking about the boys being nominated amongst with the ladies of course...
I was just astounded that her performance in general was considered awardworthy.
But that's also personal taste I guess...

SusiGo wrote:

nakahara wrote:

mrshouse wrote:

Btw, die anybody read, too, that Amanda got nominated for a critics choice award for HLV? I guess I'll be flamed for this and okokok she did not do bad but an award?? Seriously??? Compared to the performance of Martin and Benedict????
*ducking away and hiding *

Why would you hide? I fully agree with you.
Especially when I think about Benedict being constantly snubbed by those same critics despite his fantastic performance as Sherlock.
 

I see your point. 

??? But they weren't snubbed, they were also nominated, in their respective categories, for their Sherlock roles. (Which is the same level of recognition as Amanda received.)


As for her performance being considered award-worthy--if it were not, you all wouldn't have such strong feelings about her!
 

Last edited by REReader (August 26, 2014 2:47 pm)

Yes, I meant BAFTA. I just forgot to specify this.
And I didn´t know about Emmy winnings yet when I wrote this.
 

On the contrary, I think a good part of the reason Mary is such a strong presence on the show is down to the acting--it's a very subtle and strong performance, and makes the character an equally strong presence, especially considering that she doesn't actually have all that much screen time. If it was a weak performance in comparison to the stellar work by Benedict and Martin, it would be hard for the character to register, much less cause all this hoopla.

Last edited by REReader (August 26, 2014 4:43 pm)

SusiGo wrote:

As for the strong feelings - please do not mix up feelings for the character with feelings for the person. I have very strong feelings about Mary Watson, not about Amanda Abbington. Just saying. She plays the role well but compared to Benedict and Martin I think they are more award-worthy. That is all. 

 
Actually this is more or less what I wanted to say, you put it in better words than I did. As I said strong feelings about parts of characterization of the part. Thank you

Last edited by mrshouse (August 26, 2014 5:07 pm)

I can only think this is deliberate mischaracterization--as anyone who actuallly bothers to read what was written can see that I did NOT say the criticism of Mary was criticism of Amanda Abbington. I said that the fact that Mary made such a strong impression speaks to the high quality of the acting--no matter how well a role is written, the impression the character makes owes a huge amount to the way the character is acted.

To say I claimed that people dislike Amanda Abbington because she played a particular role is not just disingenuous, it is ludicrous, and it is demonstrably and completely false. I didn't even go near the idea that people dislike Amanda, because I have no idea how people feel about the actress, and furthermore I do not care.

"As for her performance being considered award-worthy--if it were not, you all wouldn't have such strong feelings about her!"

I edited that sentence several times, and I thought it clear, given the title and subject of the thread, but apparently not, my apologies. The referrent for the last "her" is MARY.

To rephrase: "As for Amanda's performance being considered award-worthy--if it were not, you all wouldn't have such strong feelings about Mary!"

REReader: Okay, that clears it up. Thank you. 

But still - I think it is not just due to her performance which is good, no doubt, but about the way the character is conceived. By shooting Sherlock Mary crossed a threshold for many fans and did something unforgiveable. For me this is at the root of the controversy and it is in the script itself, not in the way it is performed.   

Last edited by SusiGo (August 26, 2014 7:23 pm)

ShadyShapeshifter wrote:

lil wrote:

My feelings are that the confrontation in 221b was an emotional mexican stand off. John would have been forced into a choice between Sherlock and his wife and unborn child.
Sherlock saved him the angst and forgave the unforgivable and "bowed out" in a gentleman and Sherlockian like manner .

So, the confrontation at 221b, I guess that’s stuff for discussion, isn’t it? What do you all think about our “threesome” at this scene and their behavior?
 

I am really moved by Sherlock´s nobility, a little disappointed over John´s behaviour but pitying him for his predicament at the same time and Mary genuinely scares me - she is like a cobra, all poised and outwardly calm, but prepared to strike at any moment (you just feel the danger behind her cool exterior).

SusiGo wrote:

Liberty wrote:

I wonder why Sherlock is so sure that she won't shoot, though?  I suppose he's just not working fast enough and he still thinks she's the Mary he knows.  I wondered about the perfume too.  He's so sure it's not Mary, which is a little not Sherlockian of him, and believes Lady Smallwood would dress as an assassin and abseil in through windows (or however Mary got in).  Maybe he's just not very good at this when he comes to people close to him.  There have been clues about Mary all along ("liar", no guests from more than 5 years ago, the telegram) so he must have suspected something ... but not that?  In fact, he says John was attracted to her because she was dangerous - if that was there to see, Sherlock would have seen it too,  (Although, I think that could be another thing she tells John). 

I think this is his personal human error. Having suppressed his feelings for so long and trying to make up to John the two years of his death he does not function in his usual way and is in a way blind to Mary's faults. He still has to learn to reconcile emotion and mind. 
As for the shooting itself - like I said above, the fact of him addressing her as "Mrs Watson" is quite telling. He connects her to John, wants her to remember that she is not alone in this. It reminds me of him saying "We both would not do that to John Watson" in front of Sholto's hotel room. 

I think it's also possible that-- Sherlock has developed a "noble" idea of freindship-- he's now "John's Best Friend", and i think he's tried to become worthy of that title. Mary and John are a package deal, and I'm sure that Sherlock beleived that Mary *was* his friend. 

His friend.  Why would his friend shoot him? Surely not. Right? 

She was never his friend at all, and he didn't see that, because he believed her. Sherlock is not used to having friends, and I'm sure now has to come t grips with what i suspect he's been afraid of all along; if you let people in, they will hurt you.

OUCH.