Liberty wrote:

I wonder why Sherlock is so sure that she won't shoot, though?  I suppose he's just not working fast enough and he still thinks she's the Mary he knows.  I wondered about the perfume too.  He's so sure it's not Mary, which is a little not Sherlockian of him, and believes Lady Smallwood would dress as an assassin and abseil in through windows (or however Mary got in).  Maybe he's just not very good at this when he comes to people close to him.  There have been clues about Mary all along ("liar", no guests from more than 5 years ago, the telegram) so he must have suspected something ... but not that?  In fact, he says John was attracted to her because she was dangerous - if that was there to see, Sherlock would have seen it too,  (Although, I think that could be another thing she tells John). 

I think this is his personal human error. Having suppressed his feelings for so long and trying to make up to John the two years of his death he does not function in his usual way and is in a way blind to Mary's faults. He still has to learn to reconcile emotion and mind. 
As for the shooting itself - like I said above, the fact of him addressing her as "Mrs Watson" is quite telling. He connects her to John, wants her to remember that she is not alone in this. It reminds me of him saying "We both would not do that to John Watson" in front of Sholto's hotel room. 

Yes, I believe she took both risks. She did take the risk that he would survive and she did take the risk that he wouldn’t. I think that Mary looks through Sherlock way better in that moment than he through her. Think about it: She shot him in a way that if he survived would ensure that he wouldn’t be spilling her secret until he was out of surgery. Which meant that she did have time to futher negotiate with him/threaten him. Even if he said something directly after awakening, he would be under morphine, so who would really take it serious until he is fully conscious? I think she counted on Sherlock’s special behavior. And he did not disappoint. He could have told everyone from the beginning what happened, but he didn’t. It was a risk, surely, but she did a good job in both threaten him and manipulate him. I mean, he’s Sherlock Holmes, he surely would want to know why she did shoot him like that. He would want to confront her about it, right? Just like with the cabbie, he risked his life to understand, what she was doing. He must’ve wondered: If she wanted me dead, why didn’t she go straight ahead and shoot me? So instead of spilling anything, he prepared to test his new theory and made sure that John heard everything from Mary’s own mouth. Of course you can never really predict his behavior. But the moment she shot him, my first instinct was, that he would indeed not immediately tell everyone that she shot him. He would want to understand why she did it and why she didn’t kill him, ergo he had to confront her. I thought that was very in character for him. So yes, she did take the chance that he would survive, but she simply counted on his unique behavior. Also, she did threaten him, while he wasn’t really coherent, right? And after she proved that she was indeed prepared to kill him (she shot him in the chest, he nearly died), I would think he would take her serious this time. So, yes, I do believe she took a risk both ways and it turned out perfectly for her.
And I stick to the point that not her sentiment towards Sherlock stopped her from killing him. If you really care about someone, you don’t shoot them like that and risk their lives. She likes him yes, but that wasn’t enough from stopping her shooting him in a life threatening way.
I don’t think that Magnusson would have been charged if Mary would have killed him and let Magnusson live. Nobody saw the assassin. He could describe anyone in a ski mask or something. He could describe average features, maybe an altered voice, anything he wanted. He would have been the only witness.
The only question for me was, why would he bother? If Mary was only the link to Mycroft, then Sherlock’s death would break that link and Mary would no longer be useful. She did threaten him, so there was a high chance that he wouldn’t continue blackmailing her, right? My guess is that she isn’t only useful to him as a way to get to Mycroft. That seems to be the most important thing for Magnusson at the moment, because he wanted to own Mycroft, the seemingly mightiest man in England. But I guess, due to her past, she had other use to him as well (I have no idea what that could be, just theorizing).
Another possibility could be that Mary simply didn’t know that Magnusson’s foremost interest in blackmailing her was to get to Mycroft. That would be some kind of irony: In order to protect her secret, she shoots Sherlock and doesn’t kill Magnusson and that’s exactly what would motivate Magnusson to reveal her secrets.  
So, why is Sherlock so sure, Mary won’t shoot him? My guess is, sentiment really good the better of him this time. This season caring wasn’t always an advantage for him, was it? I think he really ignored the signs that Mary wasn’t who she pretended to be. I think he really cares about her and likes her. They seemed to be in a very good place, she even noticed when he was fibbing and called him out about it. And he believed she cared about him to. He tried to appeal to her sentiment by calling her Mrs Watson. He always called her Mary, but in this moment, he called her Mrs Watson, to remind her of their relationship and their first and foremost connection: John. He even ignored that she could decipher that message in episode one. He immediately deduced that she was a liar. He noticed that her side of the church was a bit thin. If he really would have thought about it the way he normally does, he should have noticed something was off with Mary. But he didn’t. He trusted her not to shoot him. She was in his inner circle of trust, if Sherlock Holmes would have something like that She was the one John chose and Sherlock genuinely seemed to like her. I think he was truly shocked when Mary shot him. Just like I was. There were signs all along that Mary wasn’t who she pretended to be, but I too, just ignored them, because I immediately liked her.
The thing about John’s addiction to dangerous people… Well, I think if Sherlock really would have stopped and thought about it, he might have glimpsed that Mary was dangerous. It’s obvious now and to Sherlock it shouldn’t have come as a surprise, if his reasoning concerning john’s addiction is correct. But he seemed to be completely blinded by her. So yes, even after she pointed a gun at him, he still seemed to think that Mary cared enough to not just shoot him. He tried to appeal to that sentiment by calling her Mrs Watson, but she shot him anyway.
Huh, do you know what I just thought about? Sherlock’s words to Irene: Love is a sentiment found on the losing side. Seems to me that Sherlock was on the losing side this season. He wasn’t on top of his games with Mary, because he cared about her and John and he was outwitted by Magnusson.
 
On another note: I thought about the tarmac scene and would really want to try and discuss it. Should I be analyzing Sherlock, John or both? Should I post it here or look for another thead? Seems to be a bit off topic :

I understand where you’re coming from, yes.  But I’ll try and explain the reasoning we’re presented here:
John indeed chose to be with Sherlock, even though he knew it could be dangerous.
He chose Mary, but consciously he thought she wouldn’t be dangerous. Like John said “she wasn’t supposed to be like that”. This means, that consciously he wanted her to be just the lovely wife. But she wasn’t. It’s not his fault, obviously, but is it so unbelievable that he would end up with someone that is dangerous? Can it really be just coincidence that the woman, John chose, is a past assassin? Mary seems just to fit the pattern. On the surface, she is what he decided to want in his life: a steady, warm, normal, lovely wife. But Sherlock seems to think that John subconsciously knew that Mary was dangerous and that just attracted him more to her. She was a “perfect match”, because she provided both. She appealed to his conscious decision of wanting normal. But on some level, she had the aura of a dangerous woman, that’s why she appealed to his addicted side. He chose her, because she provided both sides, even though John himself didn’t realize this.
So, if you believe that John is attracted to dangerous situations and person, Mary was just what he wanted at the time. A seemingly normal, lovely wife that on some levels appealed to his subconscious attraction.
So, I guess Sherlock does indeed think that John has this attraction. It seems to me, that he came to this conclusion before Mary turned out to be an assassin. Her having an ambiguous past just seemed to further validate his assessment.  I don’t know whether I agree with that, but I sort of get his reasoning. Besides, why would he make this point, if he didn’t think it was true? It didn’t seem to help the situation. John seemed to be more irritated than before, right? He even threatened to shut Sherlock forcefully up, so not really what John wanted to hear in that situation. If Sherlock only wanted to diffuse the situation and get the domestic over with, why get in an argument about it with John? To manipulate John into thinking that he wanted assassin Mary all along? Wouldn’t he risk that his assessment would have the opposite effect?

SusiGo wrote:

Something about that attracted to dangerous people thing does not sit well with me: the fact that with Sherlock John knew from the very beginning what he was in for - the riding crop, the skull on the mantelpiece, Lauriston Gardens, Donovan's warning, being kidnapped by Mycroft. He deliberately chose the danger that Sherlock provided. 
With Mary, however, it was the other way round. He chose the lovely cheeky woman, the quiet life she seemingly had to offer, the world that was completely different from what he had with Sherlock. It does not matter that he does not actually want it, he pretended to himself he wanted it. And chose Mary. Therefore it still seems so very wrong to tell him that assassin Mary is what he wanted. And why I cannot believe that this is really what Sherlock thinks. 

I agree that John did not really choose assassin Mary. I deeply believe that he wanted a pieceful quiet domestic life with that woman, especially after all he went through after the fall. 

The thing is, John has seen and done things that make it very difficult, if not impossible, to truly connect with a "normal" woman. He has seen violent deaths, he survived a war and the battlefield in London, he has killed at least one man himself. I suppose that in every relationship there will come a time when the girlfriend gets emotionally close to his core and uncovers this part of him - and probably most women would shy away from it or wouldn´t know how to handle it. Mary does. I don´t know if John told her about him shooting the cabbie, but I guess it was subconsciously clear to him that she would not judge or condemn him. I think the thing John chooses in Mary is not her being an assassin, but the fact that she does not shy away from his dark sides and of dangerous grounds most people wouldn´t dare to tread. Quite like Sherlock in this regard..

Last edited by Zatoichi (August 26, 2014 9:27 am)

I don't know, I think in a way that was Sherlock's method to make John understand Mary a little bit better. Sherlock compared Mary to himself and basically told John "Look, I am your best friend and Mary and I are basically the same. If someone like me can be your best friend, someone like Mary can be your wife."
I'm still convinced though that what Sherlock is saying there doesn't really come from his heart but from his mind. He needs to find a way to get John and Mary back together, to make John trust Mary again, at least for the time being. And I actually think it's not such a bad idea to make John be angry with Sherlock in that situation - it takes away a bit of the anger he feels for Mary at that moment, I would think. 

Zatoichi wrote:

And he chose Mary because she actually liked this part of him and thinks it a tiny bit sexy.

I'm still not convinced that it was John in the first place who picked Mary. We have no idea how they actually met and if it all 'just happened' or if Mary did seek John out, for whatever reason. I actually don't believe that they just happened to meet, that's too much of a coincidence for me.
Apart from that I do agree, John isn't made for a quiet life just as a 'normal' doctor with a nice wife and kids at home. We clearly see that at the beginning of HLV. He needs the adventure from time to time. I'm just not convinced that he really needs his wife to be exactly like that, too. I know, it's certainly not easy to find a 'normal' wife without a past like Mary's who understands and accepts his need for adventure and danger. But I'd like to believe that there might exist a woman who doesn't have a past with the CIA on the one hand and who isn't a helpless and scared housewife on the other hand. Mary is quite an extreme, I guess we all can agree on that.
 
 

But ... how did he know Mary was attracted to that side of him?  As far as we know, he doesn't show that side until after Sherlock comes back.  Although ... silly of me not to think of this, but of course (just about) everybody knows who he is.  Everybody knows about his adventures with Sherlock, and so "knows what he likes".  Of course Mary would know that, and John would know that she knew.  She claims to first read the blog after Sherlock comes back  - do you believe that? 

(Which is another point.  I don't think a woman who was trying to hide would choose a celebrity boyfriend.  She has a reason for choosing John, one which we don't know yet, I think).

Now, there's no reason John couldn't lead a dark, dangerous, violent life if he chose to, without having to have a "partner in crime".  That was what the army was about.  I'm not sure why his instincts would be to (subconsciously) go for a partner with a violent past, rather than consciously find a way to express it himself.  That really puzzles me about John.  It seems that with Sherlock he comes to terms with that side of himself.  Even his "Oh God, yes" at the very beginning is pretty whole-hearted - he's not really terribly conflicted about his dark side.  I still don't understand why he deliberately forces himself into being bored, when the dark side is something he knows he needs and accepts. 

Sorry, straying from Mary to John.  I think Mary is genuinely attracted to John, but their relationship is no accident.   She's the one who sought him out, I'm sure, and for some reason, Sherlock wants them (or her) to believe (that he believes) that it was the other way round. 

Good point about the anger being deflected from Mary to Sherlock, SolarSystem.  I think you're right, but it's difficult to watch.  The morphine comment is awful.  But Sherlock is still controlling the whole scene.  He doesn't allow John and Mary a chance to talk together without him.  He directs the whole thing (whilst looking like he's about to collapse).  He has an agenda, and I think is trying to give a clear message to somebody - presumably Mary. 

 

Liberty: I really like your whole post. And I am so very sure that Mary meeting John was no coincidence. Even assuming she met him without knowing who he was (which is highly improbably as she chose the name five years ago and presumably has living in England), the minute he told her about Sherlock she would have realised that he was not the best choice as an inconspicuous partner. 

And what you say about Sherlock directing the scene in Baker Street whilst trying hard not to collapse is so true. 

Btw, die anybody read, too, that Amanda got nominated for a critics choice award for HLV? I guess I'll be flamed for this and okokok she did not do bad but an award?? Seriously??? Compared to the performance of Martin and Benedict????
*ducking away and hiding *

mrshouse wrote:

Btw, die anybody read, too, that Amanda got nominated for a critics choice award for HLV? I guess I'll be flamed for this and okokok she did not do bad but an award?? Seriously??? Compared to the performance of Martin and Benedict????
*ducking away and hiding *

Why would you hide? I fully agree with you.
Especially when I think about Benedict being constantly snubbed by those same critics despite his fantastic performance as Sherlock.