BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Tom Hiddleston nominates Benedict for the Ice Bucket Challenge

La Jolie · August 25, 2014 7:53 pm

Sherlockismyfix wrote:
I have always in the past been quite level-headed in my admiration of musicians and actors - the feels I get from Benedict and his work are novel and confusing. Mid-life crisis? Losing my mind?

Nah. Just discovered a new sort of enjoyment. As tonnaree put it so wisely, as long as it doesn't interfere with your real life relationships it's fine. The fact that it hasn't really happened to you before just shows how special he is (to you, but as you can see you're not alone), and that's a good thing. Because, if you put so much time and emotion into admiring him, he'd better be worth it!

Liberty - objectify, that was the word I was looking for! That's what we shouldn't do to real persons, but what we're completely free to do with characters simply because they're fictional.

Liberty wrote:
Or, I just thought, maybe it's because the characters are more interesting - you get to know them intimately in a way that you don't really know a famous person. I don't think I'd fall for a character who just walked on to look pretty. Because part of fantasy is story, and with the characters you have their story right there, with all the emotions and motives and stuff. And story/drama seems to be tied in with romance/sex for me.

I think the main point (for me at least) is that the characters are completely at my disposition, and I can do with them (in my head) whatever I want. How liberating, how boundlessly liberating, and at the same time how wonderfully safe is that?

I can fantasise about a character all I want without ever having to worry about being obtrusive and disrespectful and without ever experiencing the disappointment of realising that they are real but it's still never gonna happen. The whole point why the character was created in the first place was for me to enjoy. Benedict Cumberbatch, however, was unfortunately not created for the same purpose.

As for your last point, Liberty, about the enjoyment of a good story/drama being tied in with sex/romance, I must say that I agree only partly. Looking back at the types of books and movies and TV shows I've enjoyed over the past years, there are quite a few which I thought were brilliant in terms of characters/plot/drama/emotions but still there was not one character in it that had any sexual or erotic attraction for me. But still I enjoyed them greatly, some to the point of obsession. I agree that the enjoyment does increase when at least one of the characters involved is sexually attractive to me. But it's not a sine qua non, not a necessary condition. Are you really sure that it is for you, or have I misunderstood you?

*hands out sweets and cake and drinks to all the BC fans in this thread who are so generously putting up with their thread getting hijacked for unrelated meta discussions*

Last edited by La Jolie (August 25, 2014 7:55 pm)

Russell · August 26, 2014 6:45 am

La Jolie wrote:
*hands out sweets and cake and drinks to all the BC fans in this thread who are so generously putting up with their thread getting hijacked for unrelated meta discussions*

*appreciatively accepts, honestly not minding either way*
Hee… and I was just thoughtfully bemused at how all of you went from a video that was obviously mixing some knowing fun with fan reaction/adoration, with some sweet/serious consideration towards a cause, to waxing philosophical in such a dignified way about people's tendencies with said adoration and our reactions we just share with each other on here. Nice segue, honestly. Really enjoying much of those comments, and in the same boat as most of you as well, anyway!

Completely agree about the discomfort with the object of adoration being objectified or obsessed about in real life to an undignified extent… they deserve respect despite their fame, too. But never saw anything wrong with wistfully wanting to have favorite traits like the people you've 'fallen' for or think about their work or what they're like… we sometimes pick up interests or philosophies of our friends as well. Or just fantasize about actually knowing an awesome person like them, or, like others said, thoroughly enjoy letting my mind wander to daydreams of this character or that, where I can create my own stories. Like some of you, I find it oddly intriguing that my other admirations and minor crushes were different compared to the 'feels' with Ben, too. He's just like a (healthier) drug or something?

nakahara · August 26, 2014 11:24 am

I knew that Benedict wouldn´t decline the challenge. As a celebrity, you kind of „loose face“ if you won´t participate on some currently popular mainstream folly. Still, I´m a bit sad that he was forced to take part on this event which is nothing more than an internet version of an annoying chain e-mail.

An originally good thought concerning charity and ALS gradually shifted to shameless self-promotion of various third rate starlets and bankrupt politicians. In my country, there isn´t a day without some insignificant „celebrity“ or politician throwing buckets of ice-water on his or her head, without donating a single penny/dollar/euro to the charity that started all this, of course.

Certainly it is possible to donate money and spread awareness about an illness in a more intelligent way, without such fanfare and without turning the suffering of people into your own enterntainment?

But I guess, the glimpse of real people that were crippled by this harsh ilness and the display of their real predicament would be too serious, even repulsive to watch. You wouldn´t „sell“ this cause to people if you showed them the real form the ALS can take. So you must package this thing into some silly form which our crazed public can ape without getting into touch with a real suffering ALS can cause to its victims.

Still, is it really neccessary to do it in such humiliating, stupid way that can potentially cause self-inflicted injuries and has brought death to at least one person? What is the point of raising awareness about an ilness if it results in an increased number of sick people?

And what form would the next one take after this fad dies out? Live flogging for cancer? Eating some barf for Alzheimer?

I know I sound like an old fusspot again, but I can´t help to feel slightly disgusted by all this.

tonnaree · August 26, 2014 12:05 pm

I just can't share your cynicism. Should all charity work be solemn and formal? To me, Life is too precious to be taken too seriously.

This challange has raised a LOT of money and a good deal of awareness. And I see people honestly having fun with it. Not just celebrities either. I have friends and family in "real life" who have taken and passed on this challange.

Benedict was an abassador of The Motor Neurone Disease Association in Britian before this challange started and I can't imagine him not participating. The fact that he did it with such creativitiy and good humour just makes me admire him all the more.

SusiGo · August 26, 2014 12:10 pm

I see what you mean, nakahara, and I, too, had my reservations. And there are lots of idiots making a joke out of this. But then I found this video which was released before Benedict did the challenge and it really changed my opinion. (Btw, I do not like the word "hater" in any context but the video is very moving).

http://mashable.com/2014/08/20/als-ice-bucket-challenge-haters/#:eyJzIjoiZiIsImkiOiJfbDgweTF6emluNHBvM3JrNCJ9

nakahara · August 26, 2014 1:13 pm

You can call me a cynic if you like, tonnaree, but I can´t help it, I can´t take this "Ice Bucket" thing seriously.

Of course, you see it differently, because in your country, in which this challenge originated, it actually helped those afflicted people and people donated money to the charity. But in my country it turned into a huge farce.

In one village near my birth-place they had a dangerous land-slide some five years ago. Lots of villagers were displaced, they lost absolutely everything, their houses, their personal belongings, their homes... and the only help they ever got were some strange trailers into which they were placed. They were otherwise left to they own devices. And the celebrities and politicians who had means to help them didn´t care for them one bit despite their desperate pleas for help. Those people live like homeless even now, but some of them died from chronic depression or committed suicide, seeing their situation as hopeless.

So forgive me if I am cynical seeing those very celebrities and politicians who didn´t care for their own fellow-citizens pouring buckets of ice water over their heads just because it´s a new fad from the US. You would be jaded too if you witnessed this, I´m sure.

Also, I have my misgivings about help which you only give after you were challenged to that, not because you felt it was right in your heart first-hand. To me it means that your help will end the very next moment after the original challenge disapperars from your mind.

SolarSystem · August 26, 2014 2:30 pm

nakahara, I can understand why you have such a bad feeling about this. Especially what you said about the politicians and celebrities in your country who don't care for one thing but then go and participate in another, just because this other thing is the next hip thing to do.

I also had my reservations about this, and I still do to some extent. In Germany some notorious celebrities participate in the challenge as well. And they clearly do it because it means that they can promote themselves. They don't mention why they are doing it, so it basically has nothing to do anymore with what was intended.

But: There are also those celebrities who seem to take it seriously, who explain what it is all about and who raise money because of that. And yes, most of them will probably forget about it in next to no time, but if just a few of them decided to think a bit more about it because of this challenge and then maybe decide to get involved with it further (just like Benedict is doing already)... well, then that's also a success.

I don't know, I think it's a good thing to not just see the negative effects something like this is bound to have, but also the positive effects.

Last edited by SolarSystem (August 26, 2014 2:31 pm)

tonnaree · August 26, 2014 2:52 pm

nakahara wrote:
You can call me a cynic if you like, tonnaree, but I can´t help it, I can´t take this "Ice Bucket" thing seriously.

Of course, you see it differently, because in your country, in which this challenge originated, it actually helped those afflicted people and people donated money to the charity. But in my country it turned into a huge farce.

In one village near my birth-place they had a dangerous land-slide some five years ago. Lots of villagers were displaced, they lost absolutely everything, their houses, their personal belongings, their homes... and the only help they ever got were some strange trailers into which they were placed. They were otherwise left to they own devices. And the celebrities and politicians who had means to help them didn´t care for them one bit despite their desperate pleas for help. Those people live like homeless even now, but some of them died from chronic depression or committed suicide, seeing their situation as hopeless.

So forgive me if I am cynical seeing those very celebrities and politicians who didn´t care for their own fellow-citizens pouring buckets of ice water over their heads just because it´s a new fad from the US. You would be jaded too if you witnessed this, I´m sure.

Also, I have my misgivings about help which you only give after you were challenged to that, not because you felt it was right in your heart first-hand. To me it means that your help will end the very next moment after the original challenge disapperars from your mind.

Now I understand better where you're coming from. Yes, this would make me angry too.

nakahara · August 26, 2014 3:29 pm

Of course, I know that not everything in the challenge is negative. I don´t begrudge anything to people who joined the movement out of enthusiasm, in an effort to introduce the serious problem to the public in a lighthearted way, or who did various charities long before any challenge (which is Benedict´s case).

It´s just that in my vicinity the challenge is connected with such a twisted hypocrisy that it paints my perception of the whole thing in a very black colour.

Harriet · August 26, 2014 5:33 pm

Actually, nakahara, while I believe that Benedict knows what he does in this case and did it right imho, I'd like to thank you for bringing this up in general. It's important to reflect about charity work, good intentions, its means and also abuse.

So very differently from Solar (but probably not anymore if we met and talked it over), I'd say
"It's a good thing to not just see the positive effects something like this is bound to have, but also the negative effects."

Mrs.Wenceslas · August 26, 2014 5:42 pm

it would take a long time to answer to all your opinions.it´s not easy to judge and I agree mostly with all of you. I hope that this campaign, which got extremely viral, will inspire other charities and celebrities to support more a more projects. unfortunately, even our rich world cannot support everyone in need....

Harriet · August 26, 2014 5:59 pm

Many scientists say if there were a true intention to share and care it could.

Or as Mahatma Gandhi put it: “The world has enough for everyone's need, but not enough for everyone's greed.”

maryagrawatson · August 26, 2014 6:18 pm

I have a hard time with fads like these. I know they do very little for the cause (I'm now seeing spinoffs where people are promoting other causes besides ALS). I just ignored the trend until BC piqued my interest in it, otherwise I would probably not even know why people are throwing buckets of cold water on their head. If I were challenged, I would decline. I've never been one to jump off the bridge just because everyone else is, unless it made sense to me. That said, my brother just did the challenge and it was so epic I think it was even better than BC's!

Mary

REReader · August 26, 2014 7:10 pm

The ALS and MND organizations would counter that this meme drew a great deal of attention to their cause, and a great deal of money, and fair enough. It may be silly, but silliness does garner attention, and no cause attracts money (and they all need money) without attention.

While I admit that I'm personally a bit tired of the whole thing, but I certainly don't grudge the organizations their fund-raising success. I know one person who dies of ALS, and one who is living with it, and any research in the field is knowledge that can not only help the people most directly affected, but people with any neurological disorder.

Last edited by REReader (August 26, 2014 7:14 pm)

Ivy · August 26, 2014 9:41 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I love this quote by Vaughan Sivell, the script writer of "Third Star":

“He is rare even amongst the acting breed. If the character description says handsome: he is. If it says Nasty: he is. Older: he is… Younger: he is. For this reason I just can’t wait to see what he will become.”

Yeah I remember reading that quote, it's beautiful. I was a bit proud that I've such a good taste.
It wasn't "love" at the first sight but rather interest after I saw him in TTSS. Before that I couldn't understand what people see in him. And then came "Scandal" und the sheet scene and not just Irene was sherlocked.
He is utterly brilliant and can play everything, I hope they give him the chance to play a lot of different characters.
The funny thing is there are some moments where he looks just horrible (hair, clothes...) and on other days he's the most beautiful human being. I love is hair like it looks at the moment or like it basically looks like a year or so. I actually don't like his Sherlock locks.

SolarSystem · August 27, 2014 4:08 am

Ivy wrote:
I love is hair like it looks at the moment or like it basically looks like a year or so. I actually don't like his Sherlock locks.

Oh yes, at the moment his hair is just perfect. But the Sherlock curls seem to be coming back... there's been a pic around on tumblr today from a photoshoot for Elle Magazine, and although it's a bit blurry you can see that his hair is really growing now. And Sherlock curls aren't just Sherlock curls... they don't always look the same, for example I didn't like them in TSoT. But they were perfect in HLV.

Apart from that: Whatever he looks like, his performance is always stunning and breathtaking and makes me go "Aaawww" just as much as his looks.

Russell · August 27, 2014 5:47 am

maryagrawatson wrote:
I have a hard time with fads like these. I know they do very little for the cause (I'm now seeing spinoffs where people are promoting other causes besides ALS). I just ignored the trend until BC piqued my interest in it, otherwise I would probably not even know why people are throwing buckets of cold water on their head. If I were challenged, I would decline. I've never been one to jump off the bridge just because everyone else is, unless it made sense to me. That said, my brother just did the challenge and it was so epic I think it was even better than BC's!

Mary

Totally agree… but still, props to them raising so much from it (and yeah, people trying to turn some of the same energy while it's in the spotlight to other causes)? That said, I still love Benedict's take, for dual good-sport-awesomeness and still highlighting the actual cause, and Patrick Stewart's, for pure class. Wow… that must have been some level of epic-ness for you to say that about your brother's, though!

Speaking of epic-ness, did anyone come across Henry Cavill's yet? Only saw by chance, since not really looking up these vids, and must say that as far as this whole thing goes and being an amazing sport about it, like BC, Henry nearly tops him!
http://vimeo.com/104408762

josabby · August 27, 2014 10:21 pm

There are definately people I'd call "tabloid twits" who have done this to get personal attention-both entertainers and politicians, but most of the people I've seen do really seem to care. Celebrities like Benedict, Hiddles, Fillion (even though he could have mentioned where people could donate for ALS research and help, as could Cookie Monster and some others, though their intentions were good), Kermit the Frog (the people who make the Muppets, Stan Lee, Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Neil Patrick Harris, Patrick Stewart, Ian Mckellan, Chris Pratt, Jimmy Fallon, Anthony Mackie, ect have all been involved in charitable causes for a long time. I've even seen several personal friends and family members take this challenge and make donations. There are a lot of good causes out there that a lot of people want to help with, sometimes there just needs to be focus. This challenge brings focus by getting a lot of people involved, whether they're rich or poor and can't afford to pay for a plate at a black tie fund raiser. Plenty of people have fun raising money for charity. People have gotten dunked in dunk tanks and gotten pies thrown at them to raise money for schools. I used to do a 30 mile horseback ride every year to help children with disabilities. People do walks for strays (dogs and cats) every years, as well as the March of Dimes, the Crop Walk, the Relay for life (to raise money for cancer research) and all kinds of 5k and 10ks to raise money to fight all kinds of afflictions people suffer. Idol Gives Back (even though I started hating AI years ago) raised millions to help people in impoverished areas, and there's the Jerry Lewis Telethon to raise money for MD every year. Getting Lou Gehrig's disease would be horrible because people lose the ability to move and communicate in any way before it claims their lives. No one should go through that, so if thise challenge continues until they find a cure, that would be a wonderful thing. Ive have seen people complain about wasting fresh water, but I worked in a couple crappy fast food restaraunts and waited tables in a couple places in my high school and college years. People often ordered water in addition to their pops (sodas to people outside the Great Lakes area), and when they left, their water glasses were not empty and there was plenty of ice left in their pop glasses, so places that serve beverages waste a lot more ice water on a daily basis than has been used on this entire challenge, but golley I guess it's ok when it's for profit rather than charity. There have been plenty of stupid trends on the net (duck face selfies) and plenty of celebrity scandals I get sick of hearing people complain about. I'll never get sick of this ice bucket challenge as long as it promotes a good cause.

nakahara · September 8, 2014 2:20 pm

On the other hand, some sick minds meanwhile did a thing that I though would eventually happen and humiliated an autistic boy by dumping a bucket of human waste on his head under the guise of this being an "ice bucket challenge":

http://jezebel.com/teens-use-ice-bucket-challenge-to-dump-human-waste-on-t-1630829531/all

People on the forums are crying in rage, devising various medieval-age punishments for the teenage culprits, but... wouldn´t it help if the "ice bucket challenge" itself wasn´t humiliating in the first place? Horseback ride and attending walks could never be misused this way, you certainly agree.

Similarly, the victim in this case was merely fourteen. Do children in the US raise so much money that they frequently do donations to charities? Of course not. He was just brainwashed by the internet into thinking he must do it if he was challenged - if everybody is crazy about the fad, it is no surprise that he felt forced to do it. Thus it was no problem for his bullies to led him where they wanted to have him.

Sherlockismyfix · September 8, 2014 6:00 pm

Nakahara, I have a family member with autism, so I find this doubly nauseating. We have experienced the pain of seeing him humiliated by his peers too many times....

I think, however, that we have to address the casual cruelty pervasive and even encouraged in our society. The ice-bucket challege is just the medium of choice in this case. Those little monsters would have devised another humiliation if they had not chosen this one.