SusiGo wrote:

I have never said they are not allowed to have a non-sexual relationship. What I have said is that then they would have written and filmed it in a different way IMO. And I am not talking about silly gay jokes. And I am not talking about sex, at least not all the time.
I am talking about a loving and exclusive relationship. This is btw what matters to me most - that there is only Sherlock and John and no one in between or on the side or wherever. I do not think that they can go back to what they had before. I think Sherlock is deeply unhappy without John. I think John has to learn (or has already learned) that Mary is not his other half. He saved Sherlock and Sherlock saved him and to me there is no way for anyone else in between. 

Yes!

At the moment, Sherlock is unhappy. And let's not forget the fact that JOhn was having nightmares again, mere weeks into his marriage. So it is not such a far fetched assumption that he is unhappy too.
Hence, both characters have to move on one way or another. I doubt that the writers will let them move backwards, back to what they had in S1 and S2. So what possibilities are there to develope? A "loving and exclusive relationship" seems like the only logical choice.

But as always, I would really like to learn about another alternative that is not a regress.

Regarding the attractiveness of Sherlock and John - I had to chuckle a bit at this discussion, because I'll be honest. When I first started watching the show, I didn't find Sherlock the least bit attractive. I knew that many people did find him hot though, and I kept wondering why. On the other hand, I thought John was adorable right from the start (perhaps because I already loved Martin as Bilbo and kept seeing him as that cute little hobbit). However, as I continued to watch, Sherlock gradually became attractive to me, and now I think he's gorgeous. I still think John is cute, too. I don't really see one as being hotter than the other, but they are both attractive in different ways.

besleybean wrote:

Possibly we all speak from our own experiences.
The 1st Sherlock forum I belonged to was run by a guy who was vehemently anti Johnlock.
The last one, well I don't know the girl's personal views, but certatainly Johnlock was prominent on the forum.
I certainly get the feeling in the fandom in general, Johnlock is the majority view. 
So I personally see no reason for Johnlockers to feel like any kind of persecuted minority and I can't say I've witnessed any behavour from anybody on here(or anywhere, actually), that should make them feel that way.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought Johnlockers felt like a persecuted minority, and I agree that there seem to be more Johnlockers than anti-Johnlockers. However, that doesn't change the fact that I've seen quite a few negative comments directed toward Johnlockers. Not so much here, but in comments on articles about Sherlock, comments on Youtube videos (granted, I should know better than to read Youtube comments), etc. I'm not saying that those comments are dominant - they're not - but they're there. I haven't seen such statements directed toward those who prefer to ship Sherlock with, say, Irene or Molly (to clarify - I'm not saying that fans of Adlock or Sherlolly aren't asked to defend themselves. I'm just saying that I personally haven't seen it). Here, I've seen the occasional post asking Johnlockers to explain why they "want to take such a beautiful friendship and twist it into a sexual relationship" and the like. While not persecution, such things can make somebody feel the need to defend themselves. Of course, supporting one's own interpretation is good whether or not anybody else questions it.

(For the record, yes, I will still watch and enjoy the show even if John and Sherlock do not become romantically involved. Even though I think they'd be even better as a couple, I still love the characters enough to stay interested if they remain platonic).

Schmiezi wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

Exactly. That's exactly what I was taught in film and literature classes in university, and I absolutely love the fact that in this fandom there are so many people who try do exactly this: to read between the lines while also taking into account what is clearly presented to them in the show in terms of dialogue, gestures, lighting, props and so forth.
Everyone can do this, Johnlockers and non-Johnlockers alike. It is indeed an interesting phenomenon that apparently almost only Johnlockers seem to analyse the show in such an elaborate way. But let's face it, if they didn't do it like that and just said "Johnlock exists on the show, full stop", non-Johnlockers would certainly ask them to present some proof - even more so than they already do, although Johnlockers try to give proof all the time.
 

As someone who spent three years of her life arguing about whether or not Darth Vader was REALLY Luke's father, I'd just like to add that IT'S FUN!!
 

All of the above.

Furthermore, I love reading metas, analysises of the subtext, because it allows me to get a glimps of intelligent people thinking. There are so many very intelligently written metas out there it's amazing. As a German and English teacher, my heart swells when I see fans doing voluntarily what I can barely get my pupils to do: Sit down and spend time with a text (or TV show), search for stilistic devices, find subtle hints at what could be intended and put it into words.

Agreed! I've become rather addicted to reading metas (mostly Johnlock, but not exclusively). I'm a bit rusty in the analysis department myself since it's been almost twently years since I took those lit and film classes, so it's fun to read what others have to say. It helps me pick up on things I may not have previously noticed, and sometimes gives me a new perspective.

Last edited by Side of Angels (July 20, 2014 8:11 pm)

What sexual references?

Once John's back in the flat(and I'm certain that will happen), I'll be happy.

I. sure the iriternet won't disappoint .me, anyway!

Mouse wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

Mouse wrote:

A good writer can write a great romance, but a great friendship? Only a great writer can pull that off.

I would hope that a great writer can pull off to show us two people who share a great romance and a great friendship both at the same time.
Gosh, why do we constantly have to talk about this friendship vs romance thing here? Does one really have to exclude the other? Does one have to be more special than the other? I just don't get this.

 

On the flip side, I can say the same thing...does one have to include the other? Why can't two people just be allowed to love each other platonically? Why is that not special enough? That's what I don't get.

Of course two people can be allowed to love each other platonically (and I already explained that 'special' has nothing to do with it).
But in my Johnlock headcanon Sherlock and John are not just two people, and I have already seen too many things that correspond with my personal Johnlock on the show to still consider their friendship to be only platonic - and 'only' is not meant in a judgemental way here!
So for me Johnlock is already happening on the show. Not completely yet, but the first steps have been taken. Because Johnlock is not only about sex to me, but about so many other, beautiful things.
 

Indeed. 

The writers chose not to let her say "woman".

The writers, besley, the writers!

For the time being. Has anybody checked if he truly does not wear his wedding ring in the tarmac scene?